Your thoughts on this please...

   #51  

gobrian77

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This isn't a big story in the US? I'd heard about it days before Lucky posted this thread.
 
   #55  

gobrian77

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Hopefully this is legible- Trump's comments on the case- he's in a tough spot here as it's not a simple thing to just waive diplomatic immunity and send her back- it's actually a very rare thing to do- as a private citizen it seems like a no-brainer, but a POTUS has to look at it from all angles and consider the precedent it could set:

B6D983C9-177D-427F-9BA6-CA2F3695637E.jpeg
 
   #56  
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It was front page news over here before Lucky posted it.

So I thought Trump was not going to waive immunity? The transcript doesn't really say clearly.
 
   #57  

gobrian77

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The last section makes it sound like he's not going to send her back- my inference is that he wants there to be some sort of communication (if it's face-to-face meeting it would almost certainly be on US soil) to lead to reconciliation (or 'healing', which is the word he used). In the end, all the family of the kid who was killed will likely get is an apology.
 
   #59  

gobrian77

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Could be, but how much is your child's life worth? I'd rather see her face charges than simply be hit in the wallet if it were my kid she killed, especially with her having fled the country right after it happened.
 
   #65  

Stetson

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I was aware prior to this thread, but I don't watch TV news, so not sure if it's getting much airtime or not.
 
   #69  

Wretch

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Charge her with vehicular manslaughter
At the very least that title should follow her on her driver's license/insurance for the rest of her life.
Too many people do not take the responsibility of piloting motorvehicles seriously and the majority out there will play stupid games on top of that.

The young man's family should be compensated as well, not to try to make up for it but, to at least remove the financial burden for burying him...
...and maybe even cover his parents for the care and support he'd have provided them in later years.
 
   #70  

luckystrike

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I'd like to see her fry

But don't think she will

Like I said, diplomatic immunity is a necessary evil

Western justice is based on the principle that it's better to let a guilty person free, than to put an innocent person in jail

The level of government corruption in many countries is far beyond the grasp of most westerners to really understand why diplomatic immunity is necessary

Wouldn't be surprised if China isn't on top of that list given their record of jailing foreign nationals for frivolous if not manufactured circumstances

I have reservations about working in China, and I sure as fuck wouldn't entertain it if I worked for a government without diplomatic immunity in place

Diplomatic immunity is designed for the lowest common denominator. An unfortunate consequence is situations like this one and it's an example where individual justice is sacrificed for the greater good

It happens, and there are worse examples like the Canadian incident mentioned earlier:

Andrey Knyazev, a Russian envoy, has been charged with drunk driving causing death. Police say he claimed diplomatic immunity immediately after the incident.

A car struck and killed Catherine MacLean, 50, as she walked her dog last weekend. Her friend who was with her remains in hospital with serious injuries.

But it wasn't the diplomat's first drunk driving incident.

According to diplomatic notes released Thursday, Knyazev was stopped for impaired driving in July of 1999, handcuffed and detained by police.

The notes say the Russian embassy complained to Foreign Affairs, stating that it expected an apology for the way its diplomat was treated.

The embassy not only received an apology, but Foreign Affairs criticized the actions of the police, returned the diplomat's driver's licence and reimbursed him for towing costs.

The impaired driving charges were dropped.

Manley has ordered an internal investigation to find out why Knyazev was allowed to stay after the first incident.

Knyazev has returned to Moscow, after Russia rejected a request to have him tried in Canada. Authorities say he will face prosecution there.
 
   #71  
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I'm not sure you would get charged for this in America if you weren't under the influence of any drugs or alcohol. They tend to excuse sober stupidity when it comes to auto accidents.
 
   #72  

Rhino

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US crash suspect does not have diplomatic immunity, Foreign Office says


Seems the big question is DID she have immunity at the time of the accident.. if so that is that.. now she is back on American soil of course her diplomatic immunity is waved.. she doesn't need immunity in America..

Charges here would be nill unless she was high or drunk at the time.. even then 1 to 5 would be a max with a decent lawyer...

Not sure what is to be gained here other then a finicial settlement.
 
   #73  

gobrian77

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There was an attempted meeting between the parents and the woman responsible for their son's death at the White House- it didn't go well...

Grieving Parents ‘Ambushed’ by Trump, Who Had Teen’s Killer Waiting at White House

Trump, it seems, thought he could convince the Dunns to meet the woman who killed their son, and would do so by opening a side door through which she would walk. The whole scene would be captured by a pool of photographers who had been summoned for the meeting.

But the Dunns would have none of it and refused to meet her. Dunn family spokesman Radd Seiger said that the family felt “ambushed” when the “bombshell” was dropped that Sacoolas was next door.
 
   #74  

gobrian77

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The family is pretty angry after these comments as they felt Trump was excusing what happened with his comments about the driving differences:

 
   #75  

Wretch

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How dare he try to steal their righteous indignation!

They'll get to closure when they are ready and not one second sooner...

...or they won't.
 
Likes: Ed
   #76  

BilletMan

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It's really fucking weak that Lucky now starts topics, then completely disappears....:fu::fu::fu::fu:
 
   #77  

gobrian77

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How dare he try to steal their righteous indignation!

They'll get to closure when they are ready and not one second sooner...

...or they won't.
So you think they shouldn't have been informed in advance that a meeting had been planned (and not privately, but in front of photographers)? If anyone's indignation is righteous, it's theirs- it seems like they're the ones who should have the most say in what happens as far as any meeting goes.

Seiger said the second surprise was that they had not expected to actually meet the president in person. But the third was the doozy.

“Thirdly that Mrs. Sacoolas was present in the building and fourthly that it was the president’s intention for Harry’s family to meet Mrs. Sacoolas in the Oval Office in front of several photographers in what was obviously designed to be a press call,” Seiger wrote in his statement.
 
   #78  

Wretch

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So you think they shouldn't have been informed in advance that a meeting had been planned (and not privately, but in front of photographers)? If anyone's indignation is righteous, it's theirs.

Seiger said the second surprise was that they had not expected to actually meet the president in person. But the third was the doozy.

“Thirdly that Mrs. Sacoolas was present in the building and fourthly that it was the president’s intention for Harry’s family to meet Mrs. Sacoolas in the Oval Office in front of several photographers in what was obviously designed to be a press call,” Seiger wrote in his statement.
He was trying too hard to bring resolution to the issue.

I'd have gone another way with it myself.

He was doing it the best way he thought it should be done.

I'm not sure how much time has passed since the incident but, if it is recent then he certainly was pushing too hard.

I get that they are still hurting and aren't ready to let go of it and I don't blame them a bit.

They are indignant about their loss right now and will be for some time, I'm sure.

I didn't let go of my anger from pointless loss for quite a while and would have had nothing to say to the bitch that did it.
It still stings some 30+ years later but, I'm not still wanting to choke her to death over it.
The courts fucked up on serving justice as it should have been.
However, nothing I feel, say or do is going to bring my friend back to life.
 
   #79  

gobrian77

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It happened in August.

The 'How dare he try to steal their righteous indignation' sarcastic line was out of place, imho, and not in character for you- it shouldn't have been too difficult for Trump (or whomever arranged that meeting- it wasn't necessarily him and could have been coordinated by staff) to realize that a behind-closed-doors deal with the family being informed in advance that the meeting was planned would have been a better choice- it's pretty obvious that the mother especially (seeing how emotional she is in interviews) would need to be prepared- this was way more than a photo-op.

It was good Trump met with them, but it should have been done in a better way, without publicity- the photographers being there seems like a real misstep that should have been easy to foresee.
 
   #80  

Wretch

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It happened in August.

The 'How dare he try to steal their righteous indignation' sarcastic line was out of place, imho, and not in character for you- it shouldn't have been too difficult for Trump (or whomever arranged that meeting- it wasn't necessarily him and could have been coordinated by staff) to realize that a behind-closed-doors deal with the family being informed in advance that the meeting was planned would have been a better choice- it's pretty obvious that the mother especially (seeing how emotional she is in interviews) would need to be prepared- this was way more than just a photo-op.
The sarcastic line was more a response to the reaction I was reading.
Yeah, who knows who organized the dog and pony show but, it's under the President's watch so, I expect it to land on his shoulders.

I've seen nothing of the mother's reactions in interviews.
August? Yeah, it's way too soon to try to broker a sit down with the perpetrator.

The whole thing is fucked up on many levels including some of my own.

It's just the daily railing against President Trump for all "his" fuckups and what a bad person he is just kind of makes it all seem like nothing.
Receptor fatigue, like hospital personnel not being able to smell the anti-septic after being exposed to it for so long.

It's expected so, when the criticism shows up, valid or not, it becomes a non-issue.

Vehicular homicide is a troublesome issue for me so, yeah I may seem out of character on responding to bits of it.
 
   #81  

gobrian77

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I think think it comes down to pretty much anyone being able to see in advance how this was a bad idea (the surprise meeting with the woman responsible, not the meeting with Trump, which I think was a good thing)- when I read about the photographers being in place, that meant it was public- how could something like a first meeting be held anywhere but a quiet, private setting, with everyone being fully prepared? It made it more of a 'look what I did' moment for Trump, and it wasn't about him.

While it's always easy to comment in hindsight, this was something that should have been obvious from the very first planning stages.
 
   #83  
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LOL, another Trump fuckup in the long line of Trump fuckups.

No doubt his supporters think the mother refused Trump's gracious opportunity for healing and reconciliation because she wanted to milk her 15 minutes of fame for more MONEY :cdolan::cdolan::cdolan:
 
   #84  

Austin_F

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LOL, another Trump fuckup in the long line of Trump fuckups.

No doubt his supporters think the mother refused Trump's gracious opportunity for healing and reconciliation because she wanted to milk her 15 minutes of fame for more MONEY :cdolan::cdolan::cdolan:
Not me. This was a mistake on Trump's part.
 
   #86  

A23

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Trump is a shithead for this.

He actually thought this was a good idea because he's an ego driven maniac.
 
   #87  
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So he decides to write a threatening letter to the president of Turkey, and gets in a verbal altercation with Nancy Pelosi, which they both declare a victory.......dude is on a roll.
 
   #88  

Wretch

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Trump is a shithead for this.

He actually thought this was a good idea because he's an ego driven maniac.
He's a shithead for a lot of reasons.
Point to any leader who isn't or hasn't been an ego driven asshole?

Interesting take on honesty:

 
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