Trump. Good v Bad...

BusaVeloce

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FYI, the "under God" part was added MUCH later ('54) to "counter" the communist threat of the day. Here's a little history lesson about our pledge, if you're interested.


The OG pledge, v 1.0 - "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

v 1.1 - "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." This is the one I actually prefer.

And finally, v 1.2 - "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Wonder if it'll be changed if Bernie get in the WH...
... lol... 1954... well it bought us some time, but the revolution is coming...

Bloomberg just spent 90million on adds for super Tuesday...

Bernie scares the shit out of the Dems top donors...
 

maui

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the Democratic platform be "my billionaire can beat up your billionaire"...

Of course Trump could just sit on Bloomberg and squish the shit outa him...
 

Austin_F

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Amazing, with all this time to prepare the dems couldn't come up with a ringer to beat Trump, a 2020 Obama if you will.

I really think they should save their money, abandon this election, and spend 5 years grooming some guy who has no bad past to dig up and prep him for 2024.
 

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It ain't gonna be Bernie. The Dems don't like him and they don't want him. It'll be Bloomberg. The only question that remains in my mind is who will Bloomberg pair himself with?
 

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If you're on the football team and the coach wants to say a prayer before the game and you're the kid who goes whining to the administrators about your coach saying a prayer before the game, then you're what's fucking wrong and you need to get over it. I never advocated requiring teachers to tell a story about 6,000 years of magic or any goofy shit like that. Evolution is fairly obvious, but it absolutely doesn't explain everything. If a teacher wants to explain that evolution may not be the end-all be-all story of life on earth, I have no problem with that either. Something happened between chimpanzees and me typing this shit out, and nobody knows exactly what the fuck that was. God? Aliens? Chimps eating mushrooms and expanding their horizons? Who made the motherfuckin' mushrooms? If a teacher wants to explain it to the kiddies that way, I've got no problem with him throwing the word God in there with the aliens and the 'shrooms.
Ok, say you’re on the team, and you don’t want to pray with the coach. Does the coach treat you the same as the other kids? Maybe, maybe not. No big deal? How about you keep that shit out of public schools, and problem solved. What if the coach worships Satan or Allah? Is that cool too? Should the people we entrust with our kids indoctrinate or push religion on them? We don’t need to even have this discussion if we keep it out of school. If you want kids to pray at school,, there are many options available to do just that. They way the founders wanted it.

Of course we don’t have the answers for everything, that’s one of the things that is so great about being free of religion. Religion has a beginning and an end. There is no need to search for the truth of our existence. It had been laid out for you. Along with wicked tales of fire and hell. Making normal things a sin and telling this to kids. Religion has retarded the growth of humanity, enough of this placating the religious, especially in our public schools. If you want to play with your toys, that is fine, but don’t insist on me playing with them also. Out government, schools, courts, etc. should be void of anything religious.
 

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Ok, say you’re on the team, and you don’t want to pray with the coach. Does the coach treat you the same as the other kids? Maybe, maybe not. No big deal? How about you keep that shit out of public schools, and problem solved. What if the coach worships Satan or Allah? Is that cool too? Should the people we entrust with our kids indoctrinate or push religion on them? We don’t need to even have this discussion if we keep it out of school. If you want kids to pray at school,, there are many options available to do just that. They way the founders wanted it.

Of course we don’t have the answers for everything, that’s one of the things that is so great about being free of religion. Religion has a beginning and an end. There is no need to search for the truth of our existence. It had been laid out for you. Along with wicked tales of fire and hell. Making normal things a sin and telling this to kids. Religion has retarded the growth of humanity, enough of this placating the religious, especially in our public schools. If you want to play with your toys, that is fine, but don’t insist on me playing with them also. Out government, schools, courts, etc. should be void of anything religious.

Freedom of religion does not mean Free of religion.

Life has a beginning and an end.

There is a need to figure out what is most important about our own existence.

Sure, everyone has life laid out for them but, they are merely suggestions as most of us will go to try to figure it out for ourselves...
...if we have the capacity and aren't distracted by any of the many ticking traps and pitfalls of life that have always been and always will be.

Fire and Hell stories have never dissuaded me from reckless behavior or endeavors.
I've had to find out for myself what worked and what did not...
...even though it had already been laid out for me, just like many others.
The journey of the prodigal son isn't just a made up story to entertain, many take it with varying results.

What "normal" things are sins?
Who stops you from doing whatever you wish, once you're an adult?
Why do parents put limits on their children?

Retards humanities growth?
It enhances growth, shows boundaries or where the edges are in life.
Everyone can still choose to travel beyond them and have.

So, blaming and ridding the World of the religious will make everything better?
What happens after that when things aren't quite as perfect as you'd like?
Who is next?

We are creatures of Mind, Body and Spirit.
It's all about the balance or the chase of balance, between all three that makes us well adjusted...
...not perfect.

Faith is a huge part of that since we aren't all knowing and seeing from birth.

I wish I had more time to discuss this but, I need to go drive a couple of hundred miles today to have some dental work done.

I do hope you have a good day and figure out why you are so troubled about the harmless practices of others that you are not compelled to join in.
 

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Freedom of religion should and does mean, freedom from religion in public schools, as just one example.

What I meant was, religions all have a story of our beginnings and what happens when we die. Some religions like the Muslim faith claim it is the final and absolute word of god. That leaves no question(s) left for us mere humans. While this may sound ridiculous, billions of humans believe this to be true.

The fire and hell stories are told to children. People at their most vulnerable stages of life. Told this is a truth and no way of escaping it, unless... It is just wicked to expose children to these made up concepts. You did what you wanted regardless of what you told, but how many people do not because of what they were told?

What ‘normal’ things are told to be sins? I’ll start with the obvious.
Masturbation
Who you love
Who you have sex with
How you have sex
Wearing certain clothes
What you eat
When you eat
Do I really need to go on?

Yes retards humanity growth. I’m not talking about personal growth. People are free to believe what they want, ironically unless you subscribe to a religion that commands you otherwise. Our civilization has been retarded by religion for centuries. What happened to Copurnicus when he discovered something that went against the teachings of the church? What happened to reading and mathematics when Islam took root? Not allowing women to learn, and socialize. Not allowing women to control their own bodies. The Pope telling the continent of Africa during the AIDS pandemic, that no matter how bad AIDS is, using condoms is worse in the eyes of god. He told the South American continent too. Where would humanity be right now without the centuries of imprisonment, torture, and death for speaking out against religion, or leaving religion?

Listen, religion has made itself an establishment of blame. When you claim to know all and write a book telling others the how’s and why’s of life, it may have gone over well when we were ignorant of things. Now we have much more understanding of our place in the universe, and the books written in the Bronze Age just don’t seem to cut it. They left themselves in a bad spot, and blame is just part of the game.

I don’t blame religion for everything, a lot, but not everything. Feel free to worship how or who you want. Just don’t ask me to agree with it, pay for it, have it taught, or displayed in public settings. No thank you.

Again, I am not saying religion does nothing but bad, and some people find great solace in it, but it is NOT an institution to be funded or have any say in public spaces. Just like... you know what I was going to type.

I’m not troubled in the least. It seems we have problem with following the bylaws set up for our country. I’m not compelled to join in? Then can I have my tax money back that goes to religion?

Can I leave you with some advice? Find a dentist that is closer to you. I hope your appointment goes well.
 

BusaVeloce

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every game has rules... life is one big game... not sure if it is to win or lose...

but there must be a point... one big classroom... crazy fairytail stories told to kids sure stick...

wearestillveryignorantonthings@161
 
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BigHock

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Yes we are still ignorant, but we can acknowledge this, where religion can not. They wrote their findings a long time ago, with Devine interventions. Their story already has an ending, ours has yet to be written.

Not sure there is a point to life and I’m OK with that.


Resistingthelunacy@161
 

BusaVeloce

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man seems to twist everything to fit their desires... well the evil ones for sure...

religion is in your heart... kinda' like learning to trust yer gut feelings...

this world has done all in its power to confuse if not totaly scramble our connection with nature/gods inspiration...

i think ancient civilations where more in touch with our benevolent overlord/s/god

again... just thinking out loud alot lately...

oh ya... AND FREE RODGER STONE...
 

Wretch

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Freedom of religion should and does mean, freedom from religion in public schools, as just one example.
No it doesn't, you are combining the separation of church and state with freedom of religion.
As long as it's not being taught in schools or the state isn't holding up a particular religion as the official state practice;
separation of church and state is working as intended.
If one wears a Cross, Star of David or certain Arabic text on a chain around their neck as a student or government official, it's not like it's being sanctioned by the state.
If any of them wishes to pray, as long as it doesn't disrupt operations of school or work in a government then it shouldn't be an issue either.
The moment of silence at the beginning of the day gives them this opportunity.
If others who do not wish to pray or meditate, that's fine but, they can at least hold silence for the others that do.

What I meant was, religions all have a story of our beginnings and what happens when we die. Some religions like the Muslim faith claim it is the final and absolute word of god. That leaves no question(s) left for us mere humans. While this may sound ridiculous, billions of humans believe this to be true.
Why does it matter what someone else believes to you?
Sure, I'd love for the other billions on the planet to share my philosophy but, I'm not going to hate or berate them because they don't.
I save that for those who wish to do me or mine physical harm...
...plus a little extra because, I'm sinful like that.
In the meantime, I pray for their enlightenment in better choices made.

The fire and hell stories are told to children. People at their most vulnerable stages of life. Told this is a truth and no way of escaping it, unless... It is just wicked to expose children to these made up concepts. You did what you wanted regardless of what you told, but how many people do not because of what they were told?
Wicked like the object lessons in Grimm's fairy tales?
I've been told/shown far worse things than being thrown into a lake of fire as a child.
Some of it was from Hollywood and some of it from relatives and others.
None of it to do with religion.

The versions of Hell are varied across denominations and faiths practiced.
They all hold one thing in common.
Behave properly or there will be consequences.
It's cause and effect being taught as well as behooving one to act appropriately.

What ‘normal’ things are told to be sins? I’ll start with the obvious.
Masturbation
Who you love
Who you have sex with
How you have sex
Wearing certain clothes
What you eat
When you eat
Do I really need to go on?
I've never been taught that any of these things you listed was a sin.
Outside of the act of adultery.
The homosexual sex is something I heard people going on about as sinful or evil but,
not until much later in life did I examine what it said in the Old Testament did I know it was saying that God didn't like it.
To keep it brief because, it would really add a shit ton of writing to this discussion otherwise;
AFAIC, what two or group of twenty seven people decide to do together with their bodies is up to them, as long as all are consenting adults.

The idea that one can live sin free is ridiculous, it's impossible.
Mankind is sinful by nature.
That means me as well.


Yes retards humanity growth. I’m not talking about personal growth. People are free to believe what they want, ironically unless you subscribe to a religion that commands you otherwise. Our civilization has been retarded by religion for centuries. What happened to Copurnicus when he discovered something that went against the teachings of the church? What happened to reading and mathematics when Islam took root? Not allowing women to learn, and socialize. Not allowing women to control their own bodies. The Pope telling the continent of Africa during the AIDS pandemic, that no matter how bad AIDS is, using condoms is worse in the eyes of god. He told the South American continent too. Where would humanity be right now without the centuries of imprisonment, torture, and death for speaking out against religion, or leaving religion?
On the contrary, I believe religion has propelled human civilization along quite well.
Through practice and learning how to be civilized in a society.
Religious writings were guides or even pacts one could follow easily.
It helped focus on creating a civilized environment.

Sure, there were and still are, in some places, issues of man using religion to his own slefish ends but,
this would be so, no matter what we did or did not practice.

It's in our nature to sin.

I love Copernicus and recall a book report I did on him in 6th grade.
The guy did some thinking outside of the box to be certain.
One of his quotes that really fits here:

“To know that we know what we know, and to know that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge.”

No surprise the ones that could not understand what he was trying to get across more so refused to see more, than knew better.
It flew in the face of the reason they understood from their own observations.
He was standing in a different place when he was looking at the same thing they were looking at.


Listen, religion has made itself an establishment of blame. When you claim to know all and write a book telling others the how’s and why’s of life, it may have gone over well when we were ignorant of things. Now we have much more understanding of our place in the universe, and the books written in the Bronze Age just don’t seem to cut it. They left themselves in a bad spot, and blame is just part of the game.
I've come to see/understand that blame is in the heart and mind of the beholder.
There are few places where it is a benefit to any/everyone.
Physical assaults, murders and theft of property but, only when the evidence is clear and irrefutable.



I don’t blame religion for everything, a lot, but not everything. Feel free to worship how or who you want. Just don’t ask me to agree with it, pay for it, have it taught, or displayed in public settings. No thank you.

Again, I am not saying religion does nothing but bad, and some people find great solace in it, but it is NOT an institution to be funded or have any say in public spaces. Just like... you know what I was going to type.

I’m not troubled in the least. It seems we have problem with following the bylaws set up for our country. I’m not compelled to join in? Then can I have my tax money back that goes to religion?

Can I leave you with some advice? Find a dentist that is closer to you. I hope your appointment goes well.
"If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out", fits here well.
When I see things that I don't wish to see, I stop looking for/at it.

Granted there are few things I find offensive because, I do not wish to give such things power over how I feel.
It still lands on me to not look if it's too much for me to handle personally.

If mankind is involved, there will be fuck-ups both intentional and unintentional.

I do not know of churches being funded by anyone but themselves through donations of the goers or through the actions/work done by them.

Everyone has say in public in this country, even those we do not wish to see or hear.



On the distance of my dentist, it's only 180 miles round trip and even though it takes it's toll on me to travel that distance, it is what I can best afford.
Thanks for the well wishes, it did go well but, I do have another appointment in April for them to hurt me for a couple of hours.
 

Wretch

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Yes we are still ignorant, but we can acknowledge this, where religion can not. They wrote their findings a long time ago, with Devine interventions. Their story already has an ending, ours has yet to be written.

Not sure there is a point to life and I’m OK with that.


Resistingthelunacy@161

It goes much deeper than the superficial manner in which you are portraying it.

The people who wrote lasting texts from ancient times knew more than just a thing or two about the human psyche and behaviors.
They were every bit as intelligent as we are today, they just didn't have the same access to massive amounts of data like we do know...
...which probably was to their advantage.

Too many distractions these days to be able to focus on the simple facts of existence.


The point of existence is obvious, if you look at it in a scientific manner.
 
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A monumental stretch at best. If my neighbor says her daughter wants to get an abortion, and I say I wish she wouldn't, do I want to reverse Roe v Wade?
Not neccessarily.

But if there WAS a push to overturn RvW, people who are against abortion are exactly the people whose support I would enlist to accomplish such a thing; those are the people that would be symapthetic for such a move.

If I say I would vote for Trump for a 3rd term, it means just that. What you hear though is the dog whistle that the never Trumpers/resist people are blowing.
But this dog whistling is not even from liberals - this is coming straight from Huckabee. This is coming from Trump himself. He's joked/brought it up like 6 times in a short time span. It's easy to say he's just joking and not serious, but Trump has a habit of doing crazy shit. Republicans love Trump because he's a loose cannon, who has unorthodox methods to "get shit done"; you'll have to excuse the folks that take that compliment seriously.

You won't take it seriously, but you seem like a rational Trump supporter, I can't say the same for the rest of the Trump supporters.


It's not too dissimilar to making an overly broad generalization like the GOP wants to repeal the 22nd. Like the entire Republican Party is out to rip up the constitution.
Yes, it's a generalization. I see almost daily here about some reference about Dems ripping up the Constitution, so it's one I'm not going to sweat over.

If I'm wrong, then good.
 
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Do you presume that every conversation here is about you?
Now you want to backtrack? Piss off.

Like a female, you've sniped me with dumb little comments in the past about not showing up to last years motogp event, despite the fact that I've gone out of my way to meet folks. They just weren't you.
 

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The religious objection to homosexuality boils down to a simple reason - maintaining numbers.

As historically it is difficult for homosexual partners to reproduce and add new members to the group, it is called a sin and discouraged, in the same way the Catholic Church outlawed contraception and smiled upon families the bred like rabbits.

Here in Spain, Franco was a big supporter of the Catholic Church, and even today remain good discounts for “familias numerosas” (large families) at museums, etc.

When the conservative PP was running the country in my first years here, they implemented a law to forbid religious symbols in classrooms which was aimed specifically at girls wearing Muslim headscarf’s.

This backfired as then kids wearing crucifixes or stars of David or crescents had to keep them inside their shirts, but the biggest was a case brought by an atheist father who sued to have the crucifixes removed that were common on the walls in state run schools......and he won!

Basically, he knew as well as anyone else did here that the legislation was aimed specifically at Muslims, turned it round and slapped them in the face with it because it was poorly written and the PP didn’t even consider it could be used against their own supporters.

So, no more crucifixes on classroom walls
 
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If someone said they would elect Obama to a 3rd term does that mean they want to abolish the 22nd amendment or that they like Obama?
As in both the cases, that could simply mean they liked the President. But I wouldn't put anything past Trump. He seems to have a loose understanding of the Constitution.
 

maui

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As in both the cases, that could simply mean they liked the President. But I wouldn't put anything past Trump. He seems to have a loose understanding of the Constitution.
So then it's Trumps fault...and he's gonna abolish the 22nd...

fake news....dog whistle...Trump derangement syndrome
 

maui

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See I would be totally surprised if Trump abolished the 22nd amendment

because he can't actually do it with out a majority...

Under Article V of the Constitution, there are two ways to propose and ratify amendments to the Constitution. To propose amendments, two-thirds of both houses of Congress can vote to propose an amendment, or two-thirds of the state legislatures can ask Congress to call a national convention to propose amendments.
and this is why you are out of your mind. You know it can't be true yet you are sticking to it.
 
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See I would be totally surprised if Trump abolished the 22nd amendment

because he can't actually do it with out a majority...
So the reason Trump would not attempt to amend the 22nd is not because he respects the Constitution and term limits, it's because he simply would not be able to get it passed. :lol:
 

Hapo

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"Jewish" isn't a race


.
...they were talkin aboot Gypsies...fuk the Jews...yea, that's what I meant...(for two pages)(Full Anal Disco)

…Hitler was going after bloodlines...if your grandmother was a known Jew you were done...

…there is certainly a Jew breed but they do breed out...even though my son is uncut and does not go to synagogue he is still a Jew...
 
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rumble phish

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...they were talkin aboot Gypsies...fuk the Jews...yea, that's what I meant...(for two pages)(Full Anal Disco)

…Hitler was going after bloodlines...if your grandmother was a known Jew you were done...

…there is certainly a Jew breed but they do breed out...even though my son is uncut and does not go to synagogue he is still a Jew...
Here, read this...

 

Hapo

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...ok...I read that...IMHO it is only partly true...

...it's a little more like working for the mob...
 

BigHock

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I find your responses a bit ridiculous and hypocritical.

Holding a moment of silence, IS EXACTLY WHAT PRAYER AT SCHOOL IS. The Supreme Court feels this way too. Not that they are right all the time, but they nailed this one.

Did you really just compare the teachings of the Bible with Grimm fairytales? The difference is, we tell the kids that these are made up fairytales. The church tells kids that this is real, when in fact, they are both fairytales. Wicked! Just plain WICKED.

Are you kidding me? You never heard these things to be a sin? Really? Never? What can I say, other than you are being less than honest. I am happy to see you are fairly liberal on these ‘sins’. If you do not subscribe to religion, there are no sins. Good and bad behavior maybe to be succinct.

Mankind has been around 100,000 maybe 200,000 years. Religion has been around a few thousand years. How did we make it at as a species without the Devine knowledge? I mean if sins are a real construct, we not only survived without God, we flourished.

Your Copurnicus quote is a good one and kinda makes the Bible’s claims a bit more unbelievable.

Quoting the Bible to support your pro-religious stance is not a good look. People are and should be held accountable for their trespasses, to look the other way is just silly.

We all pay for the church worldwide. They are above the law in most cases, and are the second largest land holders in the known universe. Just a tad behind the Queen of England. We the people subsidize that shit with less taxes in our coffers. They don’t have to tell anyone what they make, how much they have and what they do with their money. They are a corporation but gave much different rules than the rest of us. They are just like Big Earn McCraken! Above the law...

Nothing like knowing the date and time you will be inflicted with pain. It’s like the death clock... good luck


QUOTE="Wretch, post: 3265826, member: 868"]
No it doesn't, you are combining the separation of church and state with freedom of religion.
As long as it's not being taught in schools or the state isn't holding up a particular religion as the official state practice;
separation of church and state is working as intended.
If one wears a Cross, Star of David or certain Arabic text on a chain around their neck as a student or government official, it's not like it's being sanctioned by the state.
If any of them wishes to pray, as long as it doesn't disrupt operations of school or work in a government then it shouldn't be an issue either.
The moment of silence at the beginning of the day gives them this opportunity.
If others who do not wish to pray or meditate, that's fine but, they can at least hold silence for the others that do.



Why does it matter what someone else believes to you?
Sure, I'd love for the other billions on the planet to share my philosophy but, I'm not going to hate or berate them because they don't.
I save that for those who wish to do me or mine physical harm...
...plus a little extra because, I'm sinful like that.
In the meantime, I pray for their enlightenment in better choices made.



Wicked like the object lessons in Grimm's fairy tales?
I've been told/shown far worse things than being thrown into a lake of fire as a child.
Some of it was from Hollywood and some of it from relatives and others.
None of it to do with religion.

The versions of Hell are varied across denominations and faiths practiced.
They all hold one thing in common.
Behave properly or there will be consequences.
It's cause and effect being taught as well as behooving one to act appropriately.



I've never been taught that any of these things you listed was a sin.
Outside of the act of adultery.
The homosexual sex is something I heard people going on about as sinful or evil but,
not until much later in life did I examine what it said in the Old Testament did I know it was saying that God didn't like it.
To keep it brief because, it would really add a shit ton of writing to this discussion otherwise;
AFAIC, what two or group of twenty seven people decide to do together with their bodies is up to them, as long as all are consenting adults.

The idea that one can live sin free is ridiculous, it's impossible.
Mankind is sinful by nature.
That means me as well.




On the contrary, I believe religion has propelled human civilization along quite well.
Through practice and learning how to be civilized in a society.
Religious writings were guides or even pacts one could follow easily.
It helped focus on creating a civilized environment.

Sure, there were and still are, in some places, issues of man using religion to his own slefish ends but,
this would be so, no matter what we did or did not practice.

It's in our nature to sin.

I love Copernicus and recall a book report I did on him in 6th grade.
The guy did some thinking outside of the box to be certain.
One of his quotes that really fits here:

“To know that we know what we know, and to know that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge.”

No surprise the ones that could not understand what he was trying to get across more so refused to see more, than knew better.
It flew in the face of the reason they understood from their own observations.
He was standing in a different place when he was looking at the same thing they were looking at.




I've come to see/understand that blame is in the heart and mind of the beholder.
There are few places where it is a benefit to any/everyone.
Physical assaults, murders and theft of property but, only when the evidence is clear and irrefutable.





"If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out", fits here well.
When I see things that I don't wish to see, I stop looking for/at it.

Granted there are few things I find offensive because, I do not wish to give such things power over how I feel.
It still lands on me to not look if it's too much for me to handle personally.

If mankind is involved, there will be fuck-ups both intentional and unintentional.

I do not know of churches being funded by anyone but themselves through donations of the goers or through the actions/work done by them.

Everyone has say in public in this country, even those we do not wish to see or hear.



On the distance of my dentist, it's only 180 miles round trip and even though it takes it's toll on me to travel that distance, it is what I can best afford.
Thanks for the well wishes, it did go well but, I do have another appointment in April for them to hurt me for a couple of hours.
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Snail

BAMF. No. Really. As BAMF as they get.
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The best part of Turnips presidency is, its limited to two terms.
 

BigHock

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They were every bit as intelligent as we are today,
This is laughable. The times when this book of wisdom was written, people would bury children in the foundations of their buildings for prosperity and good luck!

They didn’t have the resources we do now, and that is because they weren’t intelligent enough to o
TL;DR

just shitting Ya...


i will follow it better afterwork and few bongrips...
:ducmanic:
 
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