THE SAE vs ATF Oil thread - "guess what" related

[nomad]

SAE 30 for a transmission with clutch plates appears to be on the list of unobtainable items right now (not the US)
automotive transmission 10/30 oil is available but, the burning question is, what is the difference.
Selecting gears is easy with the right oil I am told.
A bitch with the wrong oil.

also available is SAE 40 and SAE 10.

 

[Master-Cylinder]

Whut? Any clues what it is going into?

 

[nomad]

a small transmission with a bunch of clutch plates. It has fwd -neutral-reverse. Max 80hp

 

[Truth]

So the fork lift?

 

[fr0st]

With clutch plates in oil, i'd say oil with the JASO norm for let's say , motorcycle oil, would do. Rotella T5 and T6 for example , with the right grade might do as it's JASO rated..

 

[nomad]

The fundamental difference in the transmissions is that the ones that use a friction disk pack clutch specify ATF.. the ones that use a cone clutch specify motor oil..



what is the difference between SAE 30 oil and SAE10/30 .... if its just 10+30, doesnt that make SAE 20...

ATF A is what's on the plate on the transmission, wassat?
everyone says its the same as SAE 30. but thats a motor oil.

Remember too that gear oil numbers are different from crankcase oil numbers.. a 30 wt crankcase oil is about equivalent (in viscosity, not additives) to an 80 wt gear oil..

Dextron III

Original 1990s ATF grade is no longer made. use Dextron III?
or Castrol Transmax ATF ?

Type A Transmission Fluid Equivalent

Type A transmission fluid is no longer available in the market. These equivalent options come in handy as they will serve your vehicle well.

oilsadvisor.com

Redline D4 ATF
Red Line D4 Automatic Transmission Fluid is fully synthetic. Low viscosity characterizes it, with improved thermal stability. These features enable easy flow in low temperatures and smooth flow in high temperatures for continuous lubrication. As a result, the transmission system lasts longer, and its performance remains optimal. Also, you can use this fluid as a Type A transmission fluid equivalent.

 

[nomad]

 

[Master-Cylinder]

Back in the day, everyone was using Dextron ATF in the transmissions of their dyrt bikes. Everyone with a manly two cycle dyrt bike.

 

[Hugh G. Rection]

That trans will run with hydraulic oil, atf, 10-40, whatever you pour in it. When I did that shit for a living we used JD-20 hydraulic oil. Soak the frictions before you put it together. (If it's apart)

 

[braindead_organdonor]

Dexron not dextron

 

[hagrid]

Textron?

 

[Your Car Is Slow]

read somewhere long ago that there is very little difference between motor oil and atf, in fact a few decades ago was when they changed atf to the red color used today. previously it was all the same shit in different bottles and all about the weight and additive package, well according to the youtube experts anyway.

 

[nomad]

That trans will run with hydraulic oil, atf, 10-40, whatever you pour in it. When I did that shit for a living we used JD-20 hydraulic oil. Soak the frictions before you put it together. (If it's apart)

er.. too late. now what?

Dexron not dextron

oh bah humbug to your spelling beee

 

[braindead_organdonor]

This isn't even about spelling. Its a word you have been mispronouncing your entire life.

 

[nomad]

This isn't even about spelling. Its a word you have been mispronouncing your entire life.

yes and so?
they got the name wrong when they invented it. im just part of the solution to that )

 

[LE05BUSA]

Use Type F

 

[BarryW]

View attachment 101683

The fundamental difference in the transmissions is that the ones that use a friction disk pack clutch specify ATF.. the ones that use a cone clutch specify motor oil..

View attachment 101681

what is the difference between SAE 30 oil and SAE10/30 .... if its just 10+30, doesnt that make SAE 20...

ATF A is what's on the plate on the transmission, wassat?
everyone says its the same as SAE 30. but thats a motor oil.

Remember too that gear oil numbers are different from crankcase oil numbers.. a 30 wt crankcase oil is about equivalent (in viscosity, not additives) to an 80 wt gear oil..

Dextron III

Original 1990s ATF grade is no longer made. use Dextron III?
or Castrol Transmax ATF ?

Type A Transmission Fluid Equivalent

Type A transmission fluid is no longer available in the market. These equivalent options come in handy as they will serve your vehicle well.

oilsadvisor.com

Redline D4 ATF
Red Line D4 Automatic Transmission Fluid is fully synthetic. Low viscosity characterizes it, with improved thermal stability. These features enable easy flow in low temperatures and smooth flow in high temperatures for continuous lubrication. As a result, the transmission system lasts longer, and its performance remains optimal. Also, you can use this fluid as a Type A transmission fluid equivalent.

Ford Type F is as close to the original Type A as you're likely to find, so follow LE05BUSA's recommendation. Type A was the original ATF for all automatics back in the 50s, so you must be working with some pretty old equipment. A fundamental difference between engine oil and ATF is the friction characteristic. I can believe that Type A was probably not much different than engine oil back in the day, but as automatic transmissions evolved the additive packages were tuned for improved shift feel through manipulation of the static and dynamic coefficients of friction. By making the static coefficient of friction lower than the dynamic coefficient of friction, there's no driveline torque spike when a clutch pack locks up. Put that shit in a transmission that wasn't designed for it and you'll eventually smoke the plates. Like Type A, Type F didn't have friction modifiers, so it is a "grabbier" fluid.

As far as multi-viscosity ratings like 10W30, you can basically think of it as a fluid that never gets thicker than 10W at low temperatures, and never thinner than 30W at high temperatures, as opposed to a straight weight fluid that's thick (high viscosity) when cold and thin (low viscosity) when hot.

 

[nomad]

Use Type F

hot sayin you are wrong, but splain me how Type F = Type A

Ford Type F is as close to the original Type A as you're likely to find, so follow LE05BUSA's recommendation. Type A was the original ATF for all automatics back in the 50s, so you must be working with some pretty old equipment. A fundamental difference between engine oil and ATF is the friction characteristic. I can believe that Type A was probably not much different than engine oil back in the day, but as automatic transmissions evolved the additive packages were tuned for improved shift feel through manipulation of the static and dynamic coefficients of friction. By making the static coefficient of friction lower than the dynamic coefficient of friction, there's no driveline torque spike when a clutch pack locks up. Put that shit in a transmission that wasn't designed for it and you'll eventually smoke the plates. Like Type A, Type F didn't have friction modifiers, so it is a "grabbier" fluid.

As far as multi-viscosity ratings like 10W30, you can basically think of it as a fluid that never gets thicker than 10W at low temperatures, and never thinner than 30W at high temperatures, as opposed to a straight weight fluid that's thick (high viscosity) when cold and thin (low viscosity) when hot.

OK thx for that. This fork lift was made in the 90s so I am not sure why little yellow men that make hayabukis, decided to spec a fluid from the 1950s!

The stuff i read said the dexron 3 is equivalent to Type A in that it doesnt have detergents.


I went with dxTron 3 cos, it sounds cool... Ok thats a lie. Cos i like the color of it,

 

[BarryW]

Well, Dex 3 is going to have radically different friction characteristics than an old Type A fluid, so pay close attention to it. At the first sign of slippage flush it and refill with Type F.

 

[nomad]

not according to this:

Type A Transmission Fluid Equivalent

Type A transmission fluid is no longer available in the market. These equivalent options come in handy as they will serve your vehicle well.

oilsadvisor.com

Now im not saying you are wrong, cos i dont know, but you should probably splin what makes you so sure it will be radicaly different, and in what way different (easier shifting is my goal cos it was hard to get into gear

 

[BarryW]

not according to this:

Type A Transmission Fluid Equivalent

Type A transmission fluid is no longer available in the market. These equivalent options come in handy as they will serve your vehicle well.

oilsadvisor.com

Now im not saying you are wrong, cos i dont know, but you should probably splin what makes you so sure it will be radicaly different, and in what way different (easier shifting is my goal cos it was hard to get into gear

I conducted qualification tests on Dex2 and helped develop some of the Dex3 & Mercon qualification tests for GM & Ford in the late 80s. It’s news to me that Type A would be compatible with the Dexron/Mercon lineage as opposed to Type F, but I’ll admit it pre-dates my professional experience by a couple of decades. If the retro compatibility holds as stated in your link then you should be okay, but I will stick by my statement that if slippage is noticed at all, you should replace with Type F.

 

[Hugh G. Rection]

The reason Ford used Type F is because they used paper material for band linings and Dexron would burn them up.

Type F kept the bands from slipping when applying.

B&M Trick Shift was just Type F with blue dye instead of red.

I still use Type F in my race car. No synthetic bullshit for me.

Forklift trans ain't gonna give a fuck.

 

[C. Dolan]

Use Type F

Used that in the tranny of my Kaw H 1 and H 2 drag bikes in the mid 70's.
Pre mix Castrol " Bean " oil in the tank. Was also compatible with straight alky as well as gas..
FWIW : My 500 had the gas and fuel records.