Starting next year, BMW said it will offer five fully-electric cars

nomad

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Starting next year, BMW said it will offer five fully-electric cars: the BMW i3, the MINI Cooper SE, the BMW iX3, the BMW iNEXT and the BMW i4. In total BMW will have 25 electrified models on the roads by 2023, half of them fully electric.

Hows that Tesla stock looking now?

and BMFag is a profitable car maker

 

Stetson

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Tesla is going to manufacture the battery powered nanobots that Bill Gates and Dr. Fauci are going to track us with, after we all get the Autism from the mandatory Covid vaccinations and ChyynaBatFlu preventative chemtrails.

Jesus Christ, Dameon..... Improve your news feeds.........





:ducmanic:
 

BilletMan

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Strange, eh? I suspect the dude is beyond jealous.....I hope Elon rocks it, just to spite mr. nomad...

$1500+

I haven't quite figured out why you want Tesla to fail. Care to share specifics without speaking through links and reposts?
 

maui

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Look at it this way, if your'e odds are 50/50 and you get it right 1 time out of 10 is it still Tuesday if your gold fish thinks its a cat because it uses a VPN?

....and BMW is killing it with their power generation and storage division
 

Stites

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Look at it this way, if your'e odds are 50/50 and you get it right 1 time out of 10 is it still Tuesday if your gold fish thinks its a cat because it uses a VPN?

....and BMW is killing it with their power generation and storage division

Biden?
 
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Now I will look at a BMW! Wife drives one now, so we will see what they have to offer. Competition is coming like a freight train.
 

Dameon

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Competition is coming like a freight train.
And I welcome it!

Despite what you all may think, I'm not necessarily a Tesla fanboy. I think they have the best car and infrastructure offered in the EV market... and have had for nearly 10 years. I think their product is mature and undoubtedly the leader in the market space.

That being said, I think the market space is too small right now. Coincidentally, the BMW i8 was on my short list when I was looking. It got nixed because it was a PHEV and was woefully under powered. I looked at every EV available in 2015-2016. The Model S was the only one that made sense. For the most part, I still feel the same way. The competition needs to step it up. I'm ready and willing!
 

maui

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I hope BMW do well. Audi have admitted they're years behind Tesla...
They have all admitted in one way or another that they are 5 years behind Tesla. One of the (many) issues is that they are trying to retro fit existing car models to EV which has production challenges. Making battery packs fit where they were never designed to fit means making significant adjustments to the chassis (or batteries) so the economy of scale is negatively impacted. Also hood lines are designed for large power plants which are just not there. Sure they can convert these to Frunks, but its "hold my beer" engineering at best. EV's are too small of their market share and will be for a few more years. Their dedicated EV's will have a slightly better chance but if you put brand anything up against a model S Tesla they're behind and the consumer knows it. Until the main stream car manufacturers make a paradigm shift towards EV the margins will remain under pressure.

Another challenge is corporate structure. While Tesla is a company that also makes cars, their primary strength is technology through innovation and action. They are not the top heavy companies of old where you have 75 VP's and a dedicated medium sized city of accountants and CFO's trying explain why you can't abandon the market that keeps the doors open. And they have lots of doors to keep open, dealerships and marketing agencies all over the world that Tesla does not have.

But its all a trade off, that same corporate structure can also wield a lot of power and get a lot done. Its also going to have a huge amount of credit in the financial markets. They largely avoid the whip shaw volatility of their stock price. This brings in people and institutional investors. That said if TSLA gets into the S&P 500 watch out for a big run. In what direction no one knows but historically its been to the upside. Yahoo spiked 60% in the news it was going to the S&P. That would put todays TSLA in the 2400 range.

As for competition, yes, its coming. I know Dave understands this but Nomad will see it and claim its the end of Tesla.

When ever you make money (or not) people will jump on that [freight] train and they should. Competition is a good thing, always has been, always will. When people say that Tesla is in trouble because there is competition its naive or just idiotic. What competition has never been is the automatic death sentence of a company. At least not one that is innovating or has a huge lead. Is there just one car company? No. Is there just one computer company? No. If Tesla were to remain static and fail to innovate at even 10% of where they are at the yes, competition would be a troubling sign. However if Tesla can have a10% innovation lead they'll kill it. A five year lead in more like 500% not 10%. Sure that will decline and people will say see I told you so. Thats under the heading of no shit.

As for the underlying price of the stock, yes it's quite high (ridiculously) and people have been trying to use tradition modeling to say that it's more like a $50/share company if that. Thats fine, those guys need jobs too. Those models have merit in many traditional markets. The same thing was said of AAPL and AMZN. Neither of those predictions turned out to have been very good. Tesla is as investments go, high risk/high reward. A trailing stop of 100 points is not a good bet (for many reasons). A trailing stop of 20% is also not a good bet. Historically you'd get stopped out (and have short term cap gains) and not be able to buy back in if you wanted to.
 

luckystrike

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Lot of Tesla killer predictions for a few years now. I follow a group of Tesla shorts and they keep pointing to competitors like Jaguar i-pace, Taycan, etc.

But they're thinking like boomers using outdated business models

BMW can make a better car than Tesla, sure. Porsche has done a fine job with the Taycan

But like I've been saying here, the car is secondary to the software, and none of the rank and file can compete with Tesla in that space (for now, and probably never will unless their is a major shift in their culture)



The future belongs to software

It's software that extracts the juice from the battery and translates it into kinetic energy

It's software that does over the air updates, at times practically delivering a 'new' car

It's software that does auto-pilot



VW's CEO is on record saying he'd buy Tesla in a heartbeat...not for the cars, but for the software engineers. He gets it.

Hardware is a commodity with low margins and can be copied readily because it's open source by nature

Not so with software. It's why China has yet to implement its tried and true rip off business model in the EV space
 

maui

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You're much more of an active trader, so the trailing stops etc I'm guessing are too passive for you. You've done very nicely trading TSLA. As an investor what you do is far too complex. Hell I can barely follow what you're doing half the time. My comments are not for people like you, actually I try not to give advice as I suck at it. I just make comments....:

Look at it this way, if your'e odds are 50/50 and you get it right 1 time out of 10 is it still Tuesday if your gold fish thinks its a cat because it uses a VPN?

....and BMW is killing it with their power generation and storage division
 
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nomad

nomad

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Despite what you all may think, I'm not necessarily a Tesla fanboy. I think they have the best car and infrastructure offered in the EV market... and have had for nearly 10 years. I think their product is mature and undoubtedly the leader in the market space.
If you reduce the timeslice to daytrading or swingtrading, I love Tesla. When you are talking about Tesla as a valid long term investment, its a joke. Hype to be more precise.

>That said if TSLA gets into the S&P 500 watch out for a big run.
Which means nothing more than a bunch of hedge funds limited by their rules of operation can now buy it. Nothing more.
It still isnt profitable and may never

>What competition has never been is the automatic death sentence of a company. At least not one that is innovating or has a huge lead.
Caveat: as long as they innovate past the competition or define a market segment for them selves likle apple

>Tesla is as investments go, high risk/high reward.
Very high risk

>outdated business models
I love it when I hear this. throw out basic business principles because there so many headless morons buying shit with money that was printed yesterday, in a country so bankrupt, the interest payhments exceed GDP allmost.
In the sort term you can use any model you want for that insanity. IN the longer term, you will return to valuations based on reality as the market hands you your ass

>future belongs to software
I agree with that, but I also think the value of software is rapidly diminishing. The absurd amounts of money GM and others are putting into their proprietary systems will never be recouped IMO. You could argue that it will be recouped by vehicle sales but thats not the whole picture is it. What about the mechanical investment, marketing and all the other relevant factors that sell a car. Its hard to argue that software is the single reason branx sells over brand y.

Then there is the market lead time. Once a system is proven to be a winner for whatever reason (pouplarity, clever innovation etc) the conceptual elements are easy to incorporate or duplicate in software. Its the innovation thats valuable, NOT the software, and innovation has a very short market lead time from whihc profit can be made, esp in cars.

Tesla 5yrs ahead of competition... no. No way. BMCrap is what, a year or two behing model 3? Once PROFITABLE major car cos embrace this direction, you will see that shorten to 12mo or less.

Tesla is the shining example of "irrational exuberance". It was funded by govt to get its head start, it had a the worst rated product (now fixed with years of work) with highest customer loyalty, and now it defys gravity (temporarily) because it leads a class of Silicon Valley companies like WedontWork, NetFag and Flubber that redefine a business based on endless amounts of investment liquidity.

The Emporer has no clothes no matter how much the adoring crowd ignores this fact.

 

Dameon

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You've done very nicely trading TSLA. My comments are not for people like you, actually I try not to give advice as I suck at it. I just make comments....:
And I do appreciate your comments and insight. It can be really helpful to bounce things off someone and hear their thoughts.

My comment was actually in support of your whole response, which was spot on. Sadly, for me, your last comment was also spot on. I have done really well with TSLA. More so, percentage wise, than any other stock I have traded or currently trade. But that doesn't stop me from being sad when I jump on the capital gains and lose my position on longs. I was trying to stop in a position of balance. For whatever reason, I missed the timing on the jump and the Q2 report won't make it easy to get back in at less than $1000. I still think there's some play left in TSLA, but it will start to level out. I predict in 36 months. They are still in a production offering width growth... the realization of the Semi, the Cybertruck, the new Roadster and who knows what else (ATV? Motorcycle?) The Model 3 really gave them a much needed shot in the arm. The Model Y will do the same thing. Continued innovation will keep them on top.
 
OP
nomad

nomad

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good for you man. The comment about entering the SP500 is valid. If you can enter before all the funds pile in you should get a nice play there.

until...

GMC teases its 1,000HP electric Hummer truck and SUV

(that wasnt drawn by a 4yo)



“quiet revolution” with 1,000 HP, 11,500lb/ft of torque and 0 - 60 MPH times of under three seconds.

GMC’s video promises we’ll see the Hummer EV this fall and be able to reserve one then, with production starting about a year later.

I give tesla <1yr before they hit the rocks and start to flounder
 

maui

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an electric Hummer would be cool. I still have my M998. I was considering it as an electric conversion project (too many projects). If they can do the "crab mode" and get a more functional 4 wheel steering it would be nice. If GM can do this then the novelty of the M998 parking in an electric only stall is not as good, so maybe a big block with a. 8-71 blower and a giant middle finger both sides of the hood instead?
 
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luckystrike

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>future belongs to software
I agree with that, but I also think the value of software is rapidly diminishing. The absurd amounts of money GM and others are putting into their proprietary systems will never be recouped IMO. You could argue that it will be recouped by vehicle sales but thats not the whole picture is it. What about the mechanical investment, marketing and all the other relevant factors that sell a car. Its hard to argue that software is the single reason branx sells over brand y.

Then there is the market lead time. Once a system is proven to be a winner for whatever reason (pouplarity, clever innovation etc) the conceptual elements are easy to incorporate or duplicate in software. Its the innovation thats valuable, NOT the software, and innovation has a very short market lead time from whihc profit can be made, esp in cars.

Tesla 5yrs ahead of competition... no. No way. BMCrap is what, a year or two behing model 3? Once PROFITABLE major car cos embrace this direction, you will see that shorten to 12mo or less.
Wrong across the board there, nomad

Software doesn't follow all the old business paradigms

The legacy rank and file have a steep curve ahead of them

They have neither the tradition nor culture of building software. Their best hope is to merge with someone who does have it, otherwise the gap will only accelerate at a pace only software developers understand

The legacy rank and file know it, I know it, seems everybody gets it except for you
 
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