Side effects of "The Wall"?

   #151  

hedgehog

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Are those people that don't want a wall willing to pull down any fence around their houses.. work buildings and let people have instant free access to their yards buildings or their private country clubs? Is they say yes then sure keep the doors wide open.
you could ask at the same time why the same people who are wailing about it being a crisis and a matter of national security as their arguement for supporting trump´s vanity project are supporting trump shutting down the government and stopping the funding for the DHS, TSA, and customs and border protection.
 
   #152  

RobBase

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According to a Rasmussen Reports survey of 1,000 likely voters conducted Aug. 17 to 18, 51 percent of likely voters are in favor of building a wall,
compared to 37 percent who are against it and 12 percent who are unsure.

There are lots of polls you can pick and choose from, but stop trying to act like you know everything just cause you're a "google master."
I know your narcissism will prevent this but for once, just try.
And I'll reply for you, "go fuck yourself."
 
   #153  
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again im missing how "trump" has shut the government down?

there is a solution in place to have the government never shut down in the first place...dems didnt agree to it. nothing has even made it to trumps desk to sign or not sign...how again is there no accountability by dems for their part in this?
 
   #155  

gobrian77

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According to a Rasmussen Reports survey of 1,000 likely voters conducted Aug. 17 to 18, 51 percent of likely voters are in favor of building a wall,
compared to 37 percent who are against it and 12 percent who are unsure.

There are lots of polls you can pick and choose from, but stop trying to act like you know everything just cause you're a "google master."
I know your narcissism will prevent this but for once, just try.
And I'll reply for you, "go fuck yourself."
Stop using me as an outlet for your inanity. Your link is from 2015.

Go fuck yourself, Rob.
 
   #156  

RobBase

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I knew you couldn't resist trying to have the last word.
Narcissists are too predictable.
 
   #158  

gobrian77

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I knew you couldn't resist trying to have the last word.
Narcissists are too predictable.
Says the bitch who was so desperate to prove he's right that he tried to correct me with outdated info (yes, I use Google a lot for research- apparently you use AOL).:lol: And I knew you couldn't ignore me, but to beg for my attention and then cry ('Whaaaa!!! You replied to my troll post!!! You're such a narcissist for taking no notice of me until I went after you!':cry:) when you actually get it...:smile2: I told you already, just ignore me and I'll do the same- I proved that when you trolled my tariff thread a few days ago and I let it go, but you had to keep doing it hoping for a reaction... You've been pulling that shit on me (and anyone else who holds a different opinion from yours) for literally years, and it's only recently that I started giving it back in kind- you have zero ability to express yourself like anything but a douche when it comes to politics- which one of us has the issue?

Rasmussen poll (their polls ALWAYS favor Reps because they poll 'likely voters' rather than 'all voters' or 'registered voters')- from less than a month ago- 46% for, 48% against and that's pre-shutdown- it's likely the 'against' percentage has increased somewhat- it's higher than 50% in more recent polls from other outlets like Reuter's and Quinnipiac. I'd like to read the entire article to know what the 'But Not At Govt Expense' part of the headline means, but it's necessary to be a paid subscriber to access all of it:

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 46% of Likely U.S. Voters now say the United States should build a wall along the Mexican border to help stop illegal immigration...

Support for Border Wall on the Rise Again, But Not At Govt Expense - Rasmussen Reports®
 
   #160  

TurboBlew

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They're probably looking at the record low numbers for illegal border crossings and understand that the current wall issue is more of a manufactured crisis than anything else.

View attachment 15500
haha... NPR listed as taking credit for Border security report? Totally legit! :bigsmile::gobrian::BusaVeloce: Lets ask Matt Sterbator how one tallies the # of arrests vs the ones that get in undetected.
 
   #161  
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just to confirm, you still get all the back pay etc when its over aye?

just not until.
Yes.

Some are filing lawsuits to get DOUBLE pay for what was missed. Since the furloughed workers who didn't go to work will be getting full pay, those of us that had to work, won't be charged any sick or annual leave if we took a day off.
 
   #162  

gobrian77

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haha... NPR listed as taking credit for Border security report? Totally legit! :bigsmile::gobrian::BusaVeloce: Lets ask Matt Sterbator how one tallies the # of arrests vs the ones that get in undetected.
The compiled the DHS data into a chart- they didn't make it up. I think you missed the word 'source'.:lol:
 
   #163  
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haha... NPR listed as taking credit for Border security report? Totally legit! :bigsmile::gobrian::BusaVeloce: Lets ask Matt Sterbator how one tallies the # of arrests vs the ones that get in undetected.
That depends on what they consider an "arrest". Much the same way that aliens were "voluntarily returned" but didn't count as a deportation. 2009/10 they stopped the voluntary return and all were considered deports. Same thing is happening, alien is removed from U.S. but what they're calling it affects the "numbers".

The amount of number fudging in these agencies is ridiculous.

2 groups of 10 enter illegally. 20 entries total. One is caught, the other is "gotaway". 50% apprehension rate. Gotaways are bad, so the bosses are like, "hey, you think they TBS?" (turned back south). Possibly, but can't say for sure. Yeah, we'll mark it TBS... 10 entires, 10 apprehensions, 10 TBS... 100% apprehension rate.
 
   #164  

gobrian77

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But have the numbers declined over the last 15 years? That's the issue. From what you're saying, the numbers should have increased since ~2010, but they haven't.
 
   #165  

TurboBlew

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But have the numbers declined over the last 15 years? That's the issue. From what you're saying, the numbers should have increased since ~2010, but they haven't.
The number should be ZERO... not 20, 2000, 200,000. How can you make ANY determination when you just heard first hand the "report #s" can be less than factual or accurate?
So 300,000 are stopped... at the 50% number estimate... that means 300,000 got in. Could be more... or less.
Id say neither of us are near the border to determine whether or not its "crisis" level. Could be manufactured... or not.
Its pretty clear the Border Patrol has needed bodies for years.
 
   #170  
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Rasmussen........the only major poll that got the 2016 presidential election right
 
   #173  

Rhino

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I have some Florida drag race friends.. they are migrant farm hands.. they follow the crops up and down the east cost.. not one of their crew is an illegal.
 
   #174  

gobrian77

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The number should be ZERO... not 20, 2000, 200,000. How can you make ANY determination when you just heard first hand the "report #s" can be less than factual or accurate?
So 300,000 are stopped... at the 50% number estimate... that means 300,000 got in. Could be more... or less.
Id say neither of us are near the border to determine whether or not its "crisis" level. Could be manufactured... or not.
Its pretty clear the Border Patrol has needed bodies for years.

I just heard first-hand that the current numbers are likely inflated, so they might be even lower in comparison to past years if the same criteria were to be used- did you not read what Matt wrote? What you can't argue is that the numbers have been decreasing without a border wall. I'm not making a 'determination'- I formed an opinion (based on available information) which- like yours- may or may not be correct.

And the border patrol needs bodies? No shit- maybe the Reps in the House should have at least considered Schumer's 2013 bill (which could have been negotiated or changed), which would have nearly doubled the current number of agents.
 
   #175  

gobrian77

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Rasmussen........the only major poll that got the 2016 presidential election right
And, according to Rasmussen, less than 50% of Americans support the wall.

They also currently have Trump's approval rating at 45%, the lowest it's been in over four months.
 
   #176  
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And, according to Rasmussen, less than 50% of Americans support the wall.
I just looked at a Rasmussen report from 1/9/19 that states 52% of Americans think a border wall would be effective in cutting down on ILLEGAL immigration. I would post the link but as soon as I log into this website from my phone my clipboard grays out........only this website......
 
   #177  

gobrian77

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That's not the same as supporting the building of the wall- of course it would cut down illegal immigration to some degree- if you think it would stop one person, you'd have to answer 'yes' to that question. Even the story says respondents don't consider the building of the wall an emergency. Only 36% of respondents said it's 'very likely' to be effective.

Here's your link:

Voters See Border Wall As Effective But No Emergency - Rasmussen Reports®
 
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   #178  
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The December Rasmussen report dated12/14 had 46% support for and 48% support against with 3% margin of error so call it a wash. That's good enough for me. Build the fucking thing and fuck amnesty and sanctuary cities and dreamers and ms13 and fuck ILLEGALS, they are all law breakers. And fuck Democrats who support all of the above
 
   #179  

Rhino

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When did the term undocumented replace Illegal.... that is the exact moment in time it all went wrong.
 
   #180  

gobrian77

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The December Rasmussen report dated12/14 had 46% support for and 48% support against with 3% margin of error so call it a wash. That's good enough for me. Build the fucking thing and fuck amnesty and sanctuary cities and dreamers and ms13 and fuck ILLEGALS, they are all law breakers. And fuck Democrats who support all of the above
I know- I posted that info above (note, though, that was pre-shutdown, and most Rasmussen respondents were against a shutdown- the numbers likely changed a bit higher for 'against', but maybe not- the next poll- which they appear to do monthly- should be out soon). My point is that (like I said) at least half of Americans don't support the wall, but the Dems will support it in exchange for a DACA concession (I'm basing this on the fact they were willing to do it last year). The Dems control the House, and a bill won't get passed without their support.

If Trump doesn't want to negotiate, he's either going to have to back down or declare a national emergency (which, according to the link above that you referenced, most people don't support, and it will be immediately challenged in the courts, where, if he's defeated, it's over).
 
   #182  

gobrian77

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Yes you're right.

But fuck the Dems
I know we usually disagree but I always like interacting with you- you're such a fucking New Yorker- there aren't enough of us around here.:wink2:

Luckily we've got Paul as well.
 
   #183  

Rhino

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Not for long... I just sold the high rise Condo and I am entertaining offers from some competing developers for the house.. it's time to leave NY... it's just to far gone to even try.
 
   #185  
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seems we keep going round and round...

fact is it really doesnt matter how much trump is asking for, its the fact that its trumps idea and something he campaigned on that is all the dems hear.

good for the country, bad for the country...none of that matters in politics anymore...its only about who is trying to push the agenda and the other side being against it no matter what.
 
   #187  
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I'm not as savvy with the new board as the old one, and as I get older the time gets a little more precious... but here goes, lol.

Screenshot 2019-01-12 at 12.05.23 AM.png
Screenshot 2019-01-12 at 12.05.23 AM.png

What the graph doesn't represent is what was happening in different areas of the border during these years. During the 90s, it was crazy "Born in East LA" type of alien traffic in San Diego. New double fencing went up and pushed all that traffic towards Arizona.

FWIW, I was in Arizona from 2005 to 2015, and Vermont from 2015 to present.

2000-2001: there was a mass hiring of Border Patrol Agents (BPAs), and progress on new infrastructure: roads, fencing, detection technology.

2003: Funny enough, enter DHS. INS ceases to exist, ICE is formed, and CBP is created combining Border Patrol, and Customs.

2005-2006: First National Guard troops sent to the border. Basically, a huge focus on the border. Yuma sector was the hot spot so the new fencing started there.

2007-2009: NEW bollard fencing/wall starts going up. The alien traffic in my station's area dropped dramatically, and pushed it east towards more rural areas like Douglas where the new fencing hadn't been installed yet. Yuma sector's new fence completed, and their traffic all but ceased totally. I had friends out there who would put on regular shoes and run across the dirt so that the trainees had something to learn how to track sign (because there wasn't any significant alien traffic).

2012: DACA

2014: Other Than Mexican (OTM) juvenile debacle. Interesting tidbit you never heard about on CNN or Faux News... The big processing center at the time was at my station. Chainlink holding cells, think a large humane society, but humans. 2000+ kids of all ages, the smell, damn. They group the children together by age (most were "unaccompanied"). At one point, the 15-17yo males were in the cell next to the 15-17yo females. Plywood had to be ziptied on the chainlink because they were going at each other through the fence. We were banned from having our cell phones back there, lol. I still wonder how many anchor babies were conceived that summer right there in the station.

2015-2016: Huge decrease in Arizona border traffic, massive increase in traffic towards south Texas and the Rio Grande Valley.

During all of this, detection technology was being upgraded constantly.
 
   #188  

gobrian77

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Thank you for that- very interesting 'insider info'.:gobrian:

Does the graph accurately represent that (overall) attempted border crossings have decreased considerably since 2000, or are the lower numbers due to some areas seeing less traffic and others seeing more?
 
   #189  
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But have the numbers declined over the last 15 years? That's the issue. From what you're saying, the numbers should have increased since ~2010, but they haven't.
The numbers I mentioned were simply to show how "numbers" can be skewed to fit the purpose of the people wanting, or reporting said numbers.

gobrian77 said:
just heard first-hand that the current numbers are likely inflated, so they might be even lower in comparison to past years if the same criteria were to be used- did you not read what Matt wrote? It seems like you didn't. What you can't argue is that the numbers have been decreasing dramatically without a wall. I'm not making a 'determination'- I formed an opinion (based on available information) which- like yours- may or may not be correct.

And the border patrol needs bodies? No shit- maybe the Reps in the House should have at least considered Schumer's 2013 bill (which could have been negotiated or changed), which would have nearly doubled the current number of agents.
The argument can be made that the decrease in "numbers" is due to the border walls/fencing that have been constructed and improved in the past 15 years.

Doubling the amount of agents sounds great. Easier said than done. It's not just *POOF*, here's 20,000 more federal agents. The hiring and training process is extensive. We can't even maintain the 21,000 required by congress (we're at 19,000 or so). I remember reading about this back then, we (all my buddies at work) had quite the laugh over it.

As for how we know how many crossed... technology is part of it, agent knowledge is another. A lot of times it's just footprints in the sand. If there is foot sign in the dirt today that wasn't there yesterday, we got burned.

Several years back, in Arizona, there was a period where our scope truck operators would see 100 bodies coming down the mountain. At times there might be many of us, other times there would be two of us. Some nights, we wouldn't see any of them after the scope truck sighting. Other nights, that 100 bodies turned into 3 groups of 30 or so, which would turn into 3 more groups of 10'ish. Sometimes we'd catch a bunch, others we'd catch shit (literally, their shit). One night, we caught 2 of the group of 10. Hey, you can only really catch what you can put your hands on. So there were nights with 90-100 gotaways. How do you solve this problem ? Stop sending the scope truck to that area. If they aren't seen, they were never there.

The "numbers" only tell half the story.
 
   #190  

gobrian77

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The proposed increase in agents was supposed to happen over eight years (starting in 2013 and finishing in 2021)- I realize it wasn't going to be a matter of 'poof'.:wink2: I'm not arguing with your assessment of the feasibility of it, though.

So, my takeaway from what you posted is that the number of illegal crossings is likely down, though the numbers could be skewed and the reasons can be debated (fencing, technology, etc).

Again, thanks for the info- it's great hearing from a guy who's 'been there, done that'.
 
   #191  
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Thank you for that- very interesting 'insider info'.:gobrian:

Does the graph accurately represent that attempted border crossings have decreased considerably since 2000, or are the lower numbers due to some areas seeing less traffic and others seeing more?
I guess the graph represents the amount of "arrests", not attempted border crossings. Attempted crossings is an estimation at best.

The lower numbers could be that some areas are seeing less, but the question would be why are those areas seeing less traffic. Is it a coincidence that Yuma's traffic all but died after their wall/fence went up ? The traffic in Nogales also died dramatically after the new fencing/wall was constructed.

I'm not gonna sit here and say that walls are the be-all, end-all of border security, but the "numbers" would prove that they work to a certain degree.
 
   #193  

Austin_F

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Anyone see the video of Acosta going to the border and making trumps point for him? "no problems down here by the wall".

Thanks Jim.
 
   #197  

Snail

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Still losing.
 
   #200  
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depends if are you a democrat or not?
heh

I do find it funny that one side will agree to the wall, if the other agrees for a pathway to citizenship for those here illegally. So, we'll build the wall... yet reward people that make it across, and evade the law enforcement agency tasked with apprehending said people. To the agents out there patrolling, is it worth the risk to health and safety to track and arrest folks, that are going to be set free in the U.S. anyway ? Someone steals a delivered package off your porch. If they make it home without being arrested, the crime is forgiven.

Numbers. No mention of what happens AFTER the arrest. How many were arrested and removed from the U.S. ? How many were arrested, yet released into the U.S. after arrest ? How many bus tickets the government purchase for the aliens released after arrest? What "number" fits the narrative of the moment.
 
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