Side effects of "The Wall"?

   #103  

CID

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If Trump couldn't get his wall funding (without making a major concession) with a Rep-controlled Congress, I'm not sure how he thinks he's going to get it with the Dems in control of the House.
I'll be expecting that some spineless republicans will cave in and go against Trump before any democrats decide to make a FAIR deal. I suspect there a few right now trying to figure out how to capitalize. #Mclame
 
   #104  

CID

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although i´ve mentioned it before, i´ll remind you guys about something that happened here.

when i first came here, the conservative PP under jose maria Aznar was getting shit about Brown people from morrocco coming north seasonally to work (and gitanos and Eastern europeans working on the black economy) on the fruit and veg farms in the south of the country. it was the normal "they´re taking out Jobs!....they´re here illegally and not contributing" line that we here so regually from right wingers worldwide.

Aznar passed legislation to clamp down on the farms using migrant workers, making the farm owners responsable for checking where their workers came from and the possibility of prosecution if they didn´t comply.

it had the desired effect, and the number of moroccan (and gitano) seasonal workers reduced reduced as the numbers showed. the problem was then that the farms had to get alternative Manpower, meaning spanish workers working on the cards, and they could not get enough to fill the vacancies during the season because it was labour intensive physical work. it got to the point that some farmers were offering the workers a free week in hotels down on the costas if a worker stayed for the whole season!

the next thing we had was an overall Price hike in the Price of fruit and veg (and % wise it was WELL above inflation) that got the same people who were whinging about Brown illegals suddenly whinging about the higher prices they had to pay as a result of getting what they wanted, and blaming the farmers for Price gouging.

they liked the idea of less illegals, but didn´t realise how them actually being there doing the job had kept their food prices low.
hey look it's happening in Mexico too! Those dirty Government officials are stopping thefts of gas and it's driving prices up! :frEEk:

Criminal groups have been tapping pipelines and stealing tanker trucks laden with diesel and gasoline in the oil-producing country for years, reselling it illicitly, often with apparent impunity.

However, by closing off pipelines and refineries while it tracked the thefts, the government has triggered shortfalls and long lines at gas stations in several states.
Mexico fuel shortage worries industry as lines in capital grow
 
   #107  

gobrian77

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I'll be expecting that some spineless republicans will cave in and go against Trump before any democrats decide to make a FAIR deal. I suspect there a few right now trying to figure out how to capitalize. #Mclame
I know what the Dems offered in exchange for wall funding last year, and I know they said they'll negotiate after the government is reopened- what 'fair deal' has Trump put on the table?

It takes way more 'spine' to go against your party and do what you feel is the right thing (knowing you're going to be excoriated by the POTUS) than it does to blindly follow others in lockstep even if you believe they're doing the wrong thing. Politics aren't supposed to be party/president above all else.
 
   #110  
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as I understand it, noone has actually missed a paycheck yet...that changes tomorrow.
FWIW, Monday is the official payday. No one has missed a paycheck until then. However, even if the open tomorrow, we will miss this pay day as there isn't enough time to process the pay docs.

If I recall correctly, we missed a check, or half of one in 2013 during that shutdown.
 
   #112  

CID

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I know what the Dems offered in exchange for wall funding last year, and I know they said they'll negotiate after the government is reopened- what 'fair deal' has Trump put on the table?

It takes way more 'spine' to go against your party and do what you feel is the right thing (knowing you're going to be excoriated by the POTUS) than it does to blindly follow others in lockstep even if you believe they're doing the wrong thing. Politics aren't supposed to be party/president above all else.
This subject of Border Security has been an ongoing "political issue" of a can that's been kicked down the road for as long as I can remember. Any politician be it daemonrat or republicunt that doesn't follow lock step with the President on this can go pound sand far as I'm concerned.

Same goes for the healthcare bullshit.

We're not talking about some weird ideas that just popped up out of nowhere one day and now people need to sit down and work it out. We're talking many DECADES of zero decision and inaction yet we can just up and move an entire military force to save Kuwait or spend an entire lifetime managing Terrorist and drug wars with trillions spent on those types of things without anybody batting an eye.

Trump is doing the right thing by forcing these cock suckers to address the elephant that's been in the room since FDR's "new deal" and I fully support his method of closing the government down to do it too.
 
   #113  

Wretch

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CID, just what the fuck is your avatar?

Was it how you saw your silk looking up when you went Hollywood on vitamin A or is it your secret hobby of knitting colorful doilies?

It's disturbing whatever it is and I just can't reconcile why it is.
 
   #115  

CID

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CID, just what the fuck is your avatar?

Was it how you saw your silk looking up when you went Hollywood on vitamin A or is it your secret hobby of knitting colorful doilies?

It's disturbing whatever it is and I just can't reconcile why it is.
It's a mathematical representation of everything in our known universe.
 
   #118  

Rhino

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Deal??? what fucking deal??? I don't care if you put wall to wall security standing arm in arm to stop and secure the boarders NORTH ANF SOUTH ... our boarders are WIDE OPEN.. this has caused REAL issues here. This needs to be addressed once and for all. The ONLY THING ON THE TABLE IS WHERE THE CASH IS COMING FROM.. NOT IF SOME FUCKING POLITICIANS GET A DEAL OUT OF THIS., That is the entire problem with this country's political system ..they fill every fucking bill with bullshit before the vote can get passed.. pure and simple bribery to get a vote cast.
..
 
   #119  

CID

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Deal??? what fucking deal??? I don't care if you put wall to wall security standing arm in arm to stop and secure the boarders NORTH ANF SOUTH ... our boarders are WIDE OPEN.. this has caused REAL issues here. This needs to be addressed once and for all. The ONLY THING ON THE TABLE IS WHERE THE CASH IS COMING FROM.. NOT IF SOME FUCKING POLITICIANS GET A DEAL OUT OF THIS., That is the entire problem with this country's political system ..they fill every fucking bill with bullshit before the vote can get passed.. pure and simple bribery to get a vote cast.
..
No doubt a deal like citizenship for those left inside the wall. The same deal that's been played out over the last 30+ years yet have resulted in nothing but more money spent, more laws for the citizens of THIS country to adhere to, and zero to do in regards to physically stopping illegal immigration.
 
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   #122  

Austin_F

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rump is doing the right thing by forcing these cock suckers to address the elephant that's been in the room since FDR's "new deal".......
Kind of like all the presidents who said Jerusalem is the capital of Israel but wouldn't move the embassy.

One of trumps first acts was to fix that. He's the first in a long time to actually try and do what he said he would.
 
   #124  

Anal Disco

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Hey, looks like Trump is gunning to declare a national emergency and take funds used for fighting wildfires in California and hurricane relief to build his wall.

This is a brilliant move.

I, for one, applaud Trump for his superior negotiating skills - like storming out of meeting he himself called, truly next level strategy - that lead us to this tantalizing possibility.
 
   #125  

Rhino

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Fuck negotiating... sometimes you have to lead even when bodies hit the floor. Take the money DIRECTLY out of Foriegn Aid of ALL COUNTRIES. Want to see Chuck roll hard... start with defunding Isreal and route the cash to the foundation of Boarder Issues.
 
   #126  

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He's done the same thing since day one -- throw a grenade and watch the snowflakes dive for cover.

While the left complains about the 'how' he's negotiating ... he's steady on the message of the WHAT the subject is all about in the first place.

Negotiation 101.
 
   #130  
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just as a fun comparison...

in 2015, nearly 5 million taxpayers had to pay the obamacare mandate penalty for not having full health insurance coverage for the entire year. the average penalty was nearly $462 across that number.

thats 2.3 billion, in 2015 dollars...taken directly out of taxpayers pockets by the dems. im sure that hasnt imrpoved in 2016 and 2017 (thankfully trump eliminated this penalty in 2018).
 
   #131  
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If he was such a great negotiator he wouldn't have conceded to 5.7 billion before Dems even took control of the house.
Should have held out at 25, then they could have bargained for 5-10 billion.
 
   #133  
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Deal??? what fucking deal??? I don't care if you put wall to wall security standing arm in arm to stop and secure the boarders NORTH ANF SOUTH ... our boarders are WIDE OPEN.. this has caused REAL issues here. This needs to be addressed once and for all. The ONLY THING ON THE TABLE IS WHERE THE CASH IS COMING FROM.. NOT IF SOME FUCKING POLITICIANS GET A DEAL OUT OF THIS., That is the entire problem with this country's political system ..they fill every fucking bill with bullshit before the vote can get passed.. pure and simple bribery to get a vote cast.
..
This! X10.

Trump announced today he us going to overhaul H1B Visa program to simplify path to citizenship for skilled LEGAL immigrants we actually want and need. Not the ILLEGAL ones the fucking Democrats want as future voters.....
 
   #136  
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if Trump tried to do that, the GOP would drop him like a bad habit.

all of a sudden, border security wouldn´t be that much of a problem
Just when you thought only Democrats like to give away money just bring up de-funding Israel. If you wanna see the shit hit the fan.
 
   #137  

gobrian77

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Here's the situation- the fact is, while most Reps want the wall, at least half of all Americans (obviously that includes a large majority of Dems) don't- everyone has the right to have their interests represented, and, because of the way the Founding Fathers set up our system of government, Trump can't force the issue. Don't like it? Too bad.

The only way the wall is going to be funded is if the Reps make a major concession, which will probably have to be some version of the DACA reform that Schumer presented in the bipartisan Border Security/Immigration Reform bill in 2013.

Trump touted himself as a deal-maker- OK- make a fucking deal. Unnecessarily shutting down the government as a way to get what he wants is bullshit.
 
   #139  

gobrian77

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You mean like obama did to get the ACA through?
Did you read that in a Facebook meme? The Reps were the architects of that shutdown, but it didn't have any teeth because the ACA had already passed and was 85% funded regardless. Obama didn't need to shut the government down to move it forward.

Meme overplays comparison between 2013 and 2018 shutdowns

Republicans, primarily in the House, aimed to defund Obamacare. None of the 12 regular appropriation bills to pay for government operations had been passed. A group of 80 House Republicans signed a letter to House Speaker John Boehner saying this was the time to eliminate any dollars that would allow Obamacare to move forward.

Before the shutdown, Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., warned that a shutdown would be a bad idea and in any event wouldn’t block most of Obamacare from moving forward.
 
   #140  

Rhino

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Are those people that don't want a wall willing to pull down any fence around their houses.. work buildings and let people have instant free access to their yards buildings or their private country clubs? Is they say yes then sure keep the doors wide open.
 
   #141  

Rhino

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The corruption of votes and would stop with term limits .. NO ONE SHOULD BE A SENETOR FOR MORE THAN 8 YEARS.
 
   #142  

gobrian77

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Are those people that don't want a wall willing to pull down any fence around their houses.. work buildings and let people have instant free access to their yards buildings or their private country clubs? Is they say yes then sure keep the doors wide open.
They're probably looking at the record low numbers for illegal border crossings and understand that the current wall issue is more of a manufactured crisis than anything else.

7B7E546B-ACA9-4F87-B114-7556ADCA4642.jpeg
 
   #143  
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its a lose lose for trump as always with the left.

fights dems to get funding for it....takes flack from dems for "wasting money"

or capitulates and has dems throw it back in his face at election time how he cant keep campaign promises.
 
   #145  

gobrian77

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it is fascinating at how they have a record of every illegal border crossing.
That's data from DHS showing arrests at the border, which they would obviously have a record of- the numbers have inarguably declined considerably. The numbers are at a 46-year low.
 
   #146  

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its a lose lose for trump as always with the left.

fights dems to get funding for it....takes flack from dems for "wasting money"

or capitulates and has dems throw it back in his face at election time how he cant keep campaign promises.
what? like the campaign promise that it was going to be mexico that would pay for the wall?

that promise?
 
   #148  

Rhino

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Problem is here in NYC we have over crowding schools.. neighborhoods are expanding and getting to the point infrastructure is passed the 100% point. Dont dare try to go to a ER for a medical emergency..

But dont take my word for it.. take a ride on the 7 train.. or try to walk into a park in Jackson
Heights. Elmhurst, or Woodside, the line of people sleeping there even in these cold temps is astonishing.

now I'm sure in lily white areas of the USA things are just fine.. but MS 13 in the Suffolk, Nassau counties are killing kids and burying them in shallow graves in the shrub lands of long island. Is it illegals maybe not.. but arrests here of "undocumented" people are covered and protected by our politicians.
 
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