Side effects of "The Wall"?

   #51  

CID

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if he had, you lot would be having apoplexy by now!
no doubt. good thing the democrats are too stupid to capitalize on that type of thing. had they courted his ego instead of billary's there'd be a whole different world today
 
   #52  

Anal Disco

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The funny thing is you actually believe they are unbiased, the Brennen Center... a left leaning...government employees...left leaning. I’m sure there is no bias what so ever. Keep sucking that liberal tit, I’m sure it tastes good. :retard:
I'll repeat: The Brennan Center did not do these studies. They merely compiled the various state agencies (among many others) investigations and found bupkiss. Are the state voting agencies LIBRULS too? :retard:

By the way, what evidence are you seeking?
At this point, almost anything would be a fucking miracle.

Some piece of evidence that you can point to and say, "Hey, I think 20 million illegal aliens are voting in the election and this is what leads me to believe that" rather than you just pulling shit out of your ass because you enjoy the sensation. It would show that you can think rationally and base your beliefs on evidence - even if that evidence is blatantly fabricated to support only a false narrative. At least it'd be a start.
 
   #53  

BusaVeloce

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The Brennan Center is compiling the results of studies and investigations done by other researchers or departments. Justice Department, state voter agencies, university researchers, etc. You know, the people tasked for this sort of thing.

I'll ask again - what evidence you got?
the fact that some Dem precincts win with 103% or more...

vote early and vote often is no joke to some of them...
 
   #55  

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Only about 60% of the people eligible to vote do so in the big one and only 40% in a midterm. Illegal voting doesn't sway elections. Even if a precinct or 10 were swayed one way or another, it's grasping at straws to say that's the reason one political party won over another.
 
   #57  
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Overall CID, what you stated makes sense, except in those hotly contested races decided by .05% or less
 
   #58  

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Overall CID, what you stated makes sense, except in those hotly contested races decided by .05% or less
I feel that in the instances that are very close, recounts are there and both sides are represented for it. The issues of eligibility are always highlighted in those recounts and it's a valid concern to ensure all votes are on the up and up. But to exclaim that illegal votes are ruining this process is nothing but hyperbole. The fact is that if an election is decided by .05% when only 40% of eligible voters voted -- it aint illegal votes that are a problem... it's the actual citizens who are fucked up.

I'd bet that the unintended MISTAKES made by the volunteers handling the count far outweigh any number of intended corruption issues yet nobody runs around screaming about those idiots.
 
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   #59  

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Far as the wall goes.... I'd like to see a wall built, but for purely bigoted reasons: 1. Way too many immigrants on welfare and we need to correct the social service structure before we allow more shitbags into that system. 2. I'd like to see a merit based system of immigration that grows the abilities of our nation based on the needs of the USA rather than having our society be the dumping grounds for people that can't even make it in their own countries. The Statue of Liberty deal sailed when the U.N was created, so fuck that "give us your poor" crap. 3. It's just common knowledge that the poor vote for bigger government, so I'd like to see a halt on ALL social service to those that haven't been a citizen for less than 5 years minimum. If you can't come here and support yourself...boot your ass back where you came from.

On the other side of that argument -- I dont want to see a wall. Our birthrates in the western society are falling big time. While some would argue western indigenous families arent having babies due to the economy's inflation rates that require both people to work (hence a wall), the fact is -- we have two choices: Become Socialist Latin America or Become Communist China. I'll not be around for that Chinese war, so like global warming -- I dont give a fuck, but I do vaguely care about our civilization in the same way I hope our species is off this planet when a comet hits or the poles freeze up.... and speaking of the ice ages... a wall would be a bitch to climb should we all have to go south!
 
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   #60  

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Western birthrates are falling because there is no economic motive to have kids as there was in the past.

100 years ago when mom and dad were running a farm, they'd have 6 kids, they'd be lucky if 3 of them lived beyond their teens, maybe one would be lucky enough to attend school beyond high school, leaving 2 to manage operations, inherit the farm and carry on the family legacy.

A lot of that is mechanized now and as of 2008 the majority of the world's population is urban instead of rural.

Having kids today is a want, not a need resulting in birthrates well below replenishment levels.

Having said that, I'm all for the wall. Automation will displace the farming and service sector jobs where the typical illegal is employed. What will they do then?
 
   #62  

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although i´ve mentioned it before, i´ll remind you guys about something that happened here.

when i first came here, the conservative PP under jose maria Aznar was getting shit about Brown people from morrocco coming north seasonally to work (and gitanos and Eastern europeans working on the black economy) on the fruit and veg farms in the south of the country. it was the normal "they´re taking out Jobs!....they´re here illegally and not contributing" line that we here so regually from right wingers worldwide.

Aznar passed legislation to clamp down on the farms using migrant workers, making the farm owners responsable for checking where their workers came from and the possibility of prosecution if they didn´t comply.

it had the desired effect, and the number of moroccan (and gitano) seasonal workers reduced reduced as the numbers showed. the problem was then that the farms had to get alternative Manpower, meaning spanish workers working on the cards, and they could not get enough to fill the vacancies during the season because it was labour intensive physical work. it got to the point that some farmers were offering the workers a free week in hotels down on the costas if a worker stayed for the whole season!

the next thing we had was an overall Price hike in the Price of fruit and veg (and % wise it was WELL above inflation) that got the same people who were whinging about Brown illegals suddenly whinging about the higher prices they had to pay as a result of getting what they wanted, and blaming the farmers for Price gouging.

they liked the idea of less illegals, but didn´t realise how them actually being there doing the job had kept their food prices low.
 
   #63  

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although i´ve mentioned it before, i´ll remind you guys about something that happened here.

when i first came here, the conservative PP under jose maria Aznar was getting shit about Brown people from morrocco coming north seasonally to work (and gitanos and Eastern europeans working on the black economy) on the fruit and veg farms in the south of the country. it was the normal "they´re taking out Jobs!....they´re here illegally and not contributing" line that we here so regually from right wingers worldwide.

Aznar passed legislation to clamp down on the farms using migrant workers, making the farm owners responsable for checking where their workers came from and the possibility of prosecution if they didn´t comply.

it had the desired effect, and the number of moroccan (and gitano) seasonal workers reduced reduced as the numbers showed. the problem was then that the farms had to get alternative Manpower, meaning spanish workers working on the cards, and they could not get enough to fill the vacancies during the season because it was labour intensive physical work. it got to the point that some farmers were offering the workers a free week in hotels down on the costas if a worker stayed for the whole season!

the next thing we had was an overall Price hike in the Price of fruit and veg (and % wise it was WELL above inflation) that got the same people who were whinging about Brown illegals suddenly whinging about the higher prices they had to pay as a result of getting what they wanted, and blaming the farmers for Price gouging.

they liked the idea of less illegals, but didn´t realise how them actually being there doing the job had kept their food prices low.
Immediate Inflation as you describe is a short term issue. Fixing welfare work requirements alongside employee eligibility mandates would cause indigenous low income workers to HAVE to seek employment where shortages are or go hungry. As is, government handouts outweigh work income. It's the job of a politician to sell that truth. Here we see the fantasy of a 'free market'. It's the same fallacy our healthcare industry submits to.
 
   #64  

sailUSVI

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well, the Trump administration launched an investigation into voter fraud (which included ilegal immigrants) and could find no significant evidence of it happening to the levels the RWNJ´s claimed and most certainly not at any level that could be approaching that needed to influence an election.

were they liberals as well?
Come to Texas, I’ll prove you wrong...
 
   #65  

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Tunnel vision works fine for reading a fucking balance sheet. I'm not color blind, I can differentiate back from red.
 
   #66  

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Black from red.
 
   #70  

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There isn't a single person here that wouldn't use illegal labor if it meant pennies on the dollar when having to build a porch, deck or build a swimming pool.
Is it illegal to pay an illegal to work if you're not a legal business entity?
 
   #71  

luckystrike

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Is it illegal to pay an illegal to work if you're not a legal business entity?
I actually don't know, that's a good point. Other questions come to mind, what is the obligation of a private entity to validate they're transacting with a party acting as a commercial operator? Don't know the answer to that as well.

But, we know that small, medium and even large business are turning a blind eye to illegally hiring illegals.
 
   #72  

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(only if you know)

Title 8 U.S.C. § 1324a(a)(1)(A) makes it unlawful for any person or other entity to hire, recruit, or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien, as defined in subsection 1324a(h)(3).
 
   #74  

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Just as a conversation note; Only a few states require all employers to verify status. The rest require verify of business/contractor level/type entities only. I'd hire an illegal in a heartbeat if I could save a butt load of cash on a project. Of course as soon as I found out he/she was illegal I'd terminate the work and made sure I was paying 10 times that.. :razz:
 
   #75  

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Immediate Inflation as you describe is a short term issue. Fixing welfare work requirements alongside employee eligibility mandates would cause indigenous low income workers to HAVE to seek employment where shortages are or go hungry. As is, government handouts outweigh work income. It's the job of a politician to sell that truth. Here we see the fantasy of a 'free market'. It's the same fallacy our healthcare industry submits to.
i see where you are coming from there, but there is a difference here (i don´t know if it is the same your side of the pond).

here in europe, fruit and veg harvesters are paid piece rate. you get so much pay per box (of a set size for the item harvested). the point being, what you can earn far exceeds what the government would pay you for being unemployed.

but here´s the kicker - the word `can´.

in one of the periods i had between jobs in england, i worked the harvests rather than take social security payments. it was fucking hard work just to get to the same money as was being paid by the social security, and at the time i was particually fit, but those transient immigrant fruit pickers kicked arse all day and earned a lot more than i did because basically it was what they did and they were good at it!

while i was on the farms, i saw a lot of people trying it who must have thought it was a viable option, but they normally lasted 2 or 3 days and you never saw them again.

taking the average man off the street and paying him the same piece rate as the immigrants were getting would mean he wouldn´t come close to making the same as the social security was paying (at the time as a single bloke, i was entitled in total 80 quid a week). it is not a high paid job by anyone´s standards. like i said, when i did it i was pretty fit (in the dojo twice a week, and i was still totally fucked at the end of each day working), and it took me a good 3 weeks to get into a decent earning rhythm. but having said that, it´s back to the spanish example meaning if the pay has to be higher for indiginous workers to do the job to make a living on the cards, then the fruit and veg prices naturally will rise.

despite what i´ve said, i actually enjoyed doing it. the sun was out, the company was good, i got even fitter, and you were allowed a carrier bag of whatever fruit you were picking to take home each day along with each days wages - i made a fuckload of cider when i was doing apples!
 
   #76  
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those transient immigrant fruit pickers kicked arse all day and earned a lot more than i did because basically it was what they did and they were good at it!
Go to a residential construction site sometime and watch the little fuckers carry multiple sheets at one time of T&G OSB subfloor while walking on joists... all day long. :eek:
 
   #77  

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There isn't a single person here that wouldn't use illegal labor if it meant pennies on the dollar when having to build a porch, deck or build a swimming pool.

Wrong... on the "for profit" side I would always use the BEST sub available. If it came to 3rd or 4th string... they would be closely supervised IF the job needed to be done in a specific timeline.

Now if youre Comcast and you want miles of fiber optic cable buried... theres your huckleberry. How much money do they make every year??
 
   #78  

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Meh- same stuff from both sides (Trump speech/Pelosi and Schumer's rebuttal)- nothing really new.

Schumer did impress me on one point, though- I've never seen someone (who wasn't dead or unconscious) go so long without blinking.

Awaiting the 'He's brain-dead' comments...:lol:
 
   #80  

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Id have felt embarrassment if I was a democrat watching those two last night. It's obvious their disdain for this wall has nothing to do with money OR morality. If I were trump, I'd have put a montage of them arguing for the exact same money for the last 50 years up right before they did their so called "rebuttal".
 
   #82  

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basically, we had the muppet in chief spouting his normal bullshit, then the muppet show afterwards reminding him of what he said and did.

if jim henson was still alive he´d be suing them for copyright!
 
   #83  

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I never heard what trump said... I couldn't stop thinking about that spot on his right collar that looked like a shining water drop and his constant nose inhale noise. #OCD
 
   #84  
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I dont think anyone on the left has a valid argument for most things they are against other than its a GOP/Trump idea.

if obama were spinning this as a "drop in the bucket to ensure our national security and improve LEGAL immigration"...hed have to dodge all the nobel peace prizes thrown at him.
 
   #85  

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Turnip is rapidly elevating Oblamas legacy to second worst POTUS ever in the history of the U.S.
 
   #87  

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Where'd you hear that and was it inclusive for all types of farming?
 
   #89  

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Chuck Jewmer looked like the Devil - with that one dead eye...
... and Peelosi looks like she snorted an 8 ball - with all the teeth grinding and jaw swinging.

Dems are in trouble here
 
   #90  
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I dont think anyone on the left has a valid argument for most things they are against other than its a GOP/Trump idea.

if obama were spinning this as a "drop in the bucket to ensure our national security and improve LEGAL immigration"...hed have to dodge all the nobel peace prizes thrown at him.
He keeps using that 4 letter word. It's beyond ridiculous now. They would have better political ammo by just giving him the damn money and then point out later it didn't do anything.
 
   #91  
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agreed...the amount is so trivial in the grand scheme of the federal budget it just looks completely foolish.

if "not approving things that are a waste of money" is the dems new stance...I expect alot more shutdowns!
 
   #92  

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if obama were spinning this as a "drop in the bucket to ensure our national security and improve LEGAL immigration"...hed have to dodge all the nobel peace prizes thrown at him.
if Obama had promised that mexico would pay for the wall, and then shut down the government because the GOP wouldn´t let the taxpayers pay for it claiming it was needed for security, and due to that shutdown had stopped payments for 3 weeks to the government agencies responsible for security like the DHS and TSA, you lot would be going ballistic and calling him an idiot.
 
   #93  

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If you genuinely gave a fuck about the security of this nation, you wouldn't hold the pay of the very people securing it hostage over a political stunt.
 
   #95  
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Democrats had a plan, but Trump quickly picked up on the fact it would be like a bank robber letting all but one of the hostages go.
 
   #96  

gobrian77

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If Trump couldn't get his wall funding (without making a major concession) with a Rep-controlled Congress, I'm not sure how he thinks he's going to get it with the Dems in control of the House.
 
   #99  

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if Obama had promised that mexico would pay for the wall, and then shut down the government because the GOP wouldn´t let the taxpayers pay for it claiming it was needed for security, and due to that shutdown had stopped payments for 3 weeks to the government agencies responsible for security like the DHS and TSA, you lot would be going ballistic and calling him an idiot.
On a more personal note... IF YOU LIKE YOUR DR. YOU CAN KEEP YOUR DR. And the ACA actually cost me a fuck ton more when Ive had health insurance coverage since age 18. I didnt need it for a good 20+ of those years...
 
   #100  

hedgehog

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On a more personal note... IF YOU LIKE YOUR DR. YOU CAN KEEP YOUR DR. And the ACA actually cost me a fuck ton more when Ive had health insurance coverage since age 18. I didnt need it for a good 20+ of those years...
newsflash - Obama hasn´t been president for 2 years now.

if you feel the only way you could possibly score a point is by whataboutism, then you´ve already lost.

what´s next? benghazi?
 
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