SharkBite copper pipe joint.

   #51  
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Can't go tankless here, they suck in the wintertime. I've seen people run two though which defeats the purpose in my opinion. Places that have no winter I hear they are great. They also pull hella amps, so you need every bit of 200amp service and that's pushing it if you have an all electric home.
 
   #53  

Austin_F

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Why wouldn't they work in winter? My brother's each have them in Wisconsin, and mine has been just fine in Iowa.
 
   #54  
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Why wouldn't they work in winter? My brother's each have them in Wisconsin, and mine has been just fine in Iowa.
cause hes not comfortable with gas appliances and a pilot light? :D We even have them in FL...where the water exits the spring at 100 degrees...hehe
 
   #55  
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I read a lot of reviews and research on the subject of tankless ELECTRIC units. I kinda believe gas works a bit better in cold winter climates, but that is not an option for me at this time. Do you have or they have gas fired ones?

Because when the incoming water temps get lower they can't keep up. So you sacrifice volume to get them to work better. Slow down the flow. Sometimes they put a valve on the outlet of the WH to slow the flow down. End up showering in 110 degree water with hot full on, no cold at all. I like big volume hot showers, not just crank open the valve and you get what you get.
 
   #56  
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tankless electric? Isnt that an oxymoron?? Ive only ever seen gas tankless... never bothered with electric because
conventional ones are so inexpensive. One of my rentals has a tankless with a giant propane tank on the backside.
Replaced the heater about 7 years ago and it still goes strong. Of course a lady lives there.
 
   #57  
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Well bowtie has the ECO Smart electric, like the best one there is. I'd buy that brand if I wanted an electric.
 
   #58  

Austin_F

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all 3 of us have gas. ive showered in their houses in the winter, no problems. I went with a big one, 10 GPM. It's supposed to slow the flow to maintain temp if needed but mine never does. With every tap on (never happens in real life) it measures a measly 6 GPM. So mine can heat 2 showers plus laundry and dishwasher at full flow no problem. If a heater is slowing down the flow, they bought one too small for the house.

Last year I held a thermometer at the tap in the middle of winter and it read, if i remember correctly, around 38 degrees. That's when I ran the flow test. If I had gotten a 6gpm it would probably struggle. This 10gpm takagawa is the shit. PLUS it's a commercial unit so with some button presses i can go above the consumer temp limit and scald the shit outta myself if I want.

A few times I've set the heater to 110 (i have a remote control in the hallway by the bathrooms) and showered with no cold water mixed in. Then turn it back up. If you supply the dishwasher and washing machine with very hot water they go through their cycles much faster. The dishwasher in particular will sit there and heat the water more for the sanitize step, using an electric coil in the bottom. If you feed it hotter water from the beginning it advances through the steps quicker. Anyway I've always thought it's a waste of energy to have a tankless or tank set to 'too hot to shower' and mix cold water in. You're cooling off water you already paid to heat up! If you shower at a temp that doesn't need cold water mixed in then I believe you are being much more efficient.
 
   #59  
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Yeah Austin I don't think there's an electric on the market that can match those flow rates. Or if there was you need 400 amp service. And some electrics are rated on the optimistic side. There's the difference right there.
 
   #60  

Snail

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Keeping 50 + gallons of hot water circulating under the house (my current system) seems dumb and complicated compared to a demand system.
 
   #61  
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Keeping 50 + gallons of hot water circulating under the house (my current system) seems dumb and complicated compared to a demand system.
It depends on who is home or your situation . If your house sits empty 12 hours a day they save you money. If it's just you you can just get a smaller tank unit. Or if shower/laundry day is only on Sunday you can shut down the tank 6 days and invest in a few undersink units.
 
   #62  
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the tankless electric ones are all the rage here...first ive heard of someone having a power draw problem on them though (but i am in florida)...

heck my existing water heaterS are both on dedicated 40a circuits....i suppose as long as the wife isnt broiling a steak at 500deg while drying clothes during my shower...it should be ok?

its certainly something ive looked at when i redo the master bathroom.
 
   #64  

BigGar

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Just replaced my 12 year old commercial Noritz gas tankless last week. I never flushed it enough and the heat exchanger failed. The first heat exchanger failed at seven years, after labor warranty but before parts warranty. I told the fuckers to just send me one and I put the fucker on. It was a bitch of a job taking the heater all apart, but not the end of the world. After the second heat exchanger failed (never flushed that one either...), no more warranty and they didn't evern make the same unit anymore.

I got quotes from a few plumbers at RIDICULOUS numbers, coming in around $4,000 including the heater and manifold. Shopped around to possibly replace with the latest condensation technology heaters that use the chimney heat and an additional exchanger to preheat the water, thus resulting in a cooler exhaust and 10-15% increase in efficiency. That was going to increase the difficulty of replacing it myself so I went with another old style Noritz unit that had the exact same chimney setup that I already had installed for the previous one. The old one was hardlined in, including the gas, which I actually found strange here in quake country.

I got it installed on the wall in the attic above my kitchen and chimney matched right up perfect. Plumbing hookups on the bottom weren't exactly where the old ones were, so I used Sharkbike stuff. I've used it a few times before with perfect success and it's code approved here so I'm hoping I'm o.k. I'm detail oriented and probably overdid the cutting, cleaning, and deburring of the copper pipe I installed the stuff on.

Paid under $1,300 for the heater and manifold, and maybe another $100-150 for the Sharkbite stuff I needed and large flexible gas line. Took me about six hours, plus additional fucking about getting the stuff. I figure I paid myself about $400 / hour to install that fucker myself thank you very much.
 
   #66  
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yikes...if its that expensive ill just stick with the traditional water heater!
The power required for the electric one is the deal killer for me. I'd have to add another breaker box to have enough breakers to run the thing, my breaker box is all used up, not an empty spot to be found. I could probably free up some space by using a couple of the split breakers in there. There is already one in there.

Want to hear something funny? Wife thinks if we had a "on demand" tankless water heater that the water in the bathroom would be piping hot the minute she turned the tap on. She can't understand why it would not work that way. The current water heater is 40~45 feet away from the bathroom.

So then I tried to explain the recirculation set up. The last thing we need, is a heated floor in Florida!
 
   #67  
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yea, our master actually has a small size regular water heater dedicated to it...hot water instantly and its quite nice!

the sad part is that the small water heater is in the master bedroom closet...no pan or drain or anything lol...just sitting on the carpet in the closet.
 
   #68  
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Master-Cylinder

Duck Loving Curmudgeon and Legendary Race Wrench
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Just replaced my 12 year old commercial Noritz gas tankless last week. I never flushed it enough and the heat exchanger failed. The first heat exchanger failed at seven years, after labor warranty but before parts warranty. I told the fuckers to just send me one and I put the fucker on. It was a bitch of a job taking the heater all apart, but not the end of the world. After the second heat exchanger failed (never flushed that one either...), no more warranty and they didn't evern make the same unit anymore.

I got quotes from a few plumbers at RIDICULOUS numbers, coming in around $4,000 including the heater and manifold. Shopped around to possibly replace with the latest condensation technology heaters that use the chimney heat and an additional exchanger to preheat the water, thus resulting in a cooler exhaust and 10-15% increase in efficiency. That was going to increase the difficulty of replacing it myself so I went with another old style Noritz unit that had the exact same chimney setup that I already had installed for the previous one. The old one was hardlined in, including the gas, which I actually found strange here in quake country.

I got it installed on the wall in the attic above my kitchen and chimney matched right up perfect. Plumbing hookups on the bottom weren't exactly where the old ones were, so I used Sharkbike stuff. I've used it a few times before with perfect success and it's code approved here so I'm hoping I'm o.k. I'm detail oriented and probably overdid the cutting, cleaning, and deburring of the copper pipe I installed the stuff on.

Paid under $1,300 for the heater and manifold, and maybe another $100-150 for the Sharkbite stuff I needed and large flexible gas line. Took me about six hours, plus additional fucking about getting the stuff. I figure I paid myself about $400 / hour to install that fucker myself thank you very much.

Imagine how broke your ass would be if you had to pay someone to do everything for you. :eek:

One of the women where the wife works axed me how I knew how to fix anything and everything. I told her because I had to. Then she axed who taught me, I told her being poor and cheap taught me.
Too bad she's a bit "unfortunate" looking.
 
   #69  
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Master-Cylinder

Master-Cylinder

Duck Loving Curmudgeon and Legendary Race Wrench
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yea, our master actually has a small size regular water heater dedicated to it...hot water instantly and its quite nice!

the sad part is that the small water heater is in the master bedroom closet...no pan or drain or anything lol...just sitting on the carpet in the closet.
Soon to be wet carpet. I had to replace the pressure relief valve in ours a year or so ago because I came out in to the garage one morning and the floor was wet. The tank sits in a pan with a drain, but I never bothered to connect the drain pipe it because garage floor is six inches lower than the house floor so it can't flood the house. Now I've shamed myself into connecting it...maybe tomorrow.

What I would do if I were you, would be to put it in a pan of some sort and have a pump in there (A/C condensation pump) and run the discharge line from it up and into the plumbing vent pipe. You just drill a few holes in the bottom the the plastic pump body and sit it in the pan.
There are a few of those condensation pumps where the wife works that I have to check on and clean allah tyme.
 
   #70  
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yea, our master actually has a small size regular water heater dedicated to it...hot water instantly and its quite nice!

the sad part is that the small water heater is in the master bedroom closet...no pan or drain or anything lol...just sitting on the carpet in the closet.
Is it in a series with your other water heater? I'd put a timer on it. You could drain it, lift it up and slide a pan under it, the plumbing to it shouldn't be that rigid.
 
   #71  
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Duck Loving Curmudgeon and Legendary Race Wrench
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I just remembered my first "official" plumbing job. I was 21 years old and had just bought a house in Dakota territory in a semi ghost town. The house was built in the 1880's and had no indoor plumbing or heating. It had what we always called a cistern in the kitchen, a hand pump that you sometimes had to prime to get it to pump. I had to have a septic system dug into the yard and then I connected the drains and plumbed the house. It had one bedroom and the kitchen, so it was simple. We had "city" water, it consisted of a well and a storage tank in the volunteer firehouse. The firehouse had heat to keep the system from freezing. I had a key to the firehouse and truck as did every man in town. I only "worked" one fire, a guys combine started to burn in the field, we put it out.

I never did put heat in the house, just used the barrel stove for heat. On cold days and nights, had to let the bathroom faucet drip all night so the pipes wouldn't freeze, even with heat tape on them. Let me tell you, -30 ~ -40 degree F is a cold mother, especially in a house with old worthless insulation (probably newspaper or asbestos) and just a barrel stove in the living room for the only source of heat. I never thought aboot using a space heater in there...anywhere.
I'd fill the stove with hardwood in the morning before I left for work, set the dampers on the stove for a slow burn and head out.
Usually warm enough when I got home.
I'd get up in the middle of the night, toss a log or two in the stove and go back to bed.
Wouldn't mine living there now.
 
   #72  
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Is it in a series with your other water heater? I'd put a timer on it. You could drain it, lift it up and slide a pan under it, the plumbing to it shouldn't be that rigid.
no, its completely on its own (plumbing too)...and has two rigid copper lines going right into the wall. itll either last till I get around to redoing the master...or its just gonna be a big mess one day.
 
   #74  

Dameon

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What gauge wire and breaker?
Massive. It takes a LOT of amps to produce 100*+ water just passing through a couple tiny tanks (probably 16 ounces) at flow rate.

Different models for different needs. I have a tankless electric for my master suite bath. I ran 6awg at 240v and it does fine with a shower and a sink faucet simultaneously. I still use a traditional tank heater for the rest of the house. The bigger tankless units can use 150amps+.
 
   #75  

BilletMan

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Had electric tankless....hated it! Microprocessors all through it....one power surge and it's toast...and you gotta order the expensive parts....no hot water, meanwhile....fuck that!
 
   #76  
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I have two gas tankless heaters I use solely for radiant floor heat in my shop (two different sections).

I think they are great for that purpose, but they seem like they would be kind of slow to use for heating water in the house. It takes about 30 seconds to get hot water out of them because they have to purge the combustion air on each startup before they ignite the gas.
 
   #77  
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I built a passive solar water heater, wife nixed it being connected to the house.
Maybe I'll run it into the garage.
 
   #79  

RobBase

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I looked up the brand that Bowtie has.......for their large model running 3.5gpm, it requires
150 amps/ 4) 40 amp breakers at 240V in parallel.
 
   #80  
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I submitted the receipt for the supplies today, $23.48 for a 10ft chunk of type L copper pipe! Half inch was $14.28 per stick! I pulled M type out of the wall, but since I figured I'd have to fight the pipe in, I went with the heavy duty stuff.
But I was looking at that PEX stuff, the stuff is almost free when compared with copper!
 
   #86  
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