Pelosi gonna start a ground war with China?

gobrian77

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So is it the choice of either A. war or B. their remaining in their dominant position? Is it a choice of doing nothing (or making toothless moves for show) out of fear of making them angry (and having them essentially laughing at us), or do we actually do something that makes them 'angry' for a change (Pelosi's deal is just one of many scenarios that does that).

It's either stand up and show that we're done with their bullshit, or continue to take it. This is as good a time as any if we're ever going to do the former. I think they'll back down after a dick-swinging show-of-force, and it will be a lesson that we're not always going to be the ones that blink. Taiwan isn't 'the hill to die on', but, as they're an ally and trading partner, I can't see how we can let China bully an official visit from happening.

China is bluffin'

They won't do shit..
I agree.

If Pelosi's plane got blown out of the sky tomorrow, you guys can take a break from celebrating to say, 'We told you so!' :lol:
 

Snail

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It was the democrat administrations, Roosevelt and Truman that brought China into the U.N. as a full partner..

It was Roosevelt that brought us to war with Germany.

It was Kennedy and LBJ that brought us to war in Viet Nam.

To say the GOP before Trump has been the party of war hawks isn't accurate.
 

BarryW

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The geopolitics of this is intriguing. China is currently trying to quell mass insurrection caused by their Rona lockdowns as well as their crumbling real estate market Ponzi scheme. I don’t give our current administration much credit for anything, but I wonder if this isn’t a calculated move to take advantage of China’s domestic troubles in hopes of stoking that fire. My hope is we don’t do any half-ass shit that achieves nothing more than loss of life from our service people.🙏
 

luckystrike

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It was the democrat administrations, Roosevelt and Truman that brought China into the U.N. as a full partner..

It was Roosevelt that brought us to war with Germany.

It was Kennedy and LBJ that brought us to war in Viet Nam.

To say the GOP before Trump has been the party of war hawks isn't accurate.
Times change. democRATS were the party of the KKK yet today they are the champions of progressive ideals


You know what I don't get? I know something about enterprise risk management. A company will often spread business across multiple counterparties to minimize risk

Whether it's the Krauts putting all their energy eggs in the Russian basket, or America doing same with Taiwan and chips, it seems to me that governments have been negligent in practicing competent risk management... and because of that here we are
 
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maui

maui

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Looks like she had Snoopy flying the plane and the Red Baron couldn't keep her out. China now has egg on their face..or is that egg fu young? Anyway, maybe they'll keep her now. Prisoner exchange etc... Not sure how the whole defending your self thing works now that an 82 year old woman has invaded your country.
 
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maui

maui

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I'm still unconvinced that this was a good idea. Other then we can do what we want, moving 4 warships, the Taiwanese I'm sure were scrambling, lots of stress on both sides.

Assuming no one dies, which I hope is the case (yes even Nancy) in dollars how much did this cost, and how much will we gain?
 
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maui

maui

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90 mil is throw away money to the government then?
China is going to make the biggest mistake of their life if a stray missile or bullet hits a US vehicle plane ship
the cost would be too high on both sides
 
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maui

maui

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Yea, I actually don't know if it's a good idea. Russian air space either. Whats the gain? With all the shit we're trying to recover from why start a conflict? From a national defense stand point whats the gain? From a. trade stand point whats the gain? Ok, we know Nancy has balls, and she's already proven that she's a me, me , me when it comes to making money off her position in Congress,

As for Taiwan, China has just halted some imports, looks pretty minor so far but I don't know really, but punishing Taiwan is going to be the path of least resistance for China.
 

gobrian77

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The trip wasn't a great idea, but, once the second-in-line to the Presidency decided to make it, what China had to say was irrelevant as to whether it actually happened. US elected officials of either party have every right to visit a place we send $60,000,000,000+ per year to buy their goods. Either we allow China to call the shots (because that's the only way they can do it, through our concession) or we don't. Most GOP senators, China hawks all, are supporting Pelosi's move here (though they also like that she's basically defying Sleepy Joe).

It can't be, 'Fuck China! Fuck 'em, fuck 'em, fuck 'em!' Xi walks into the room. 'Shhhh, here he comes...'
 

gobrian77

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I've been dealing with a lot of Chinese parents at my kid's school the last couple years- they push-push-push/bitch-bitch-bitch to get their way. If you bend, they keep pushing because it becomes a case of, 'Hey- this weakling bends!' They seem to respect the 'I've had enough of your shit' line.

That's my anecdotal experience, of course, but it seems to be the only way to get their respect, because they sure-as-shit don't give it away for free.
 
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maui

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The trip wasn't a great idea, but, once the second-in-line to the Presidency decided to make it, what China had to say was irrelevant as to whether it actually happened. US elected officials of either party have every right to visit a place we send $60,000,000,000+ per year to buy their goods. Either we allow China to call the shots (because that's the only way they can do it, through our concession) or we don't. Most GOP senators, China hawks all, are supporting Pelosi's move here (though they also like that she's basically defying Sleepy Joe).

It can't be, 'Fuck China! Fuck 'em, fuck 'em, fuck 'em!' Xi walks into the room. 'Shhhh, here he comes...'
yea I'm on that page, maybe not with the GOP Senators. I think Taiwan is the one who's going to pay though.
 

BarryW

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I've been dealing with a lot of Chinese parents at my kid's school the last couple years- they push-push-push/bitch-bitch-bitch to get their way. If you bend, they keep pushing because it becomes a case of, 'Hey- this weakling bends!' They seem to respect the 'I've had enough of your shit' line.

That's my anecdotal experience, of course, but it seems to be the only way to get their respect, because they sure-as-shit don't give it away for free.
That’s 100% my experience dealing with them in business. I once uncorked on a group of over-demanding clients in a way that would’ve gotten me fired had they not been Chinese. Afterward our Chinese agent/translator told me he wished more Americans would push back & shut them down like that. He told me months later that most of our Chinese clients were afraid of me, to which I responded “good”.:fu:
 

gobrian77

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I think Taiwan is the one who's going to pay though.
Probably. This is the definition of being 'Between a rock and a hard place' for them. The Taiwanese were as diplomatic as possible in their response, but they would have been happier (and better off) had Pelosi stayed away.
 

Bandit Man

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Probably. This is the definition of being 'Between a rock and a hard place' for them. The Taiwanese were as diplomatic as possible in their response, but they would have been happier (and better off) had Pelosi stayed away.
From some of the footage I saw they sure as hell were not too happy she was there.
 

luckystrike

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Probably. This is the definition of being 'Between a rock and a hard place' for them. The Taiwanese were as diplomatic as possible in their response, but they would have been happier (and better off) had Pelosi stayed away.
The goalposts for many definitions are being moved around a lot these days :razz:
 

gobrian77

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Yup, those are all pro-unification protestors who support a Chinese takeover of Taiwan- you'd think Xi would have paid for a few more to show up. The old bat actually got a pretty nice reception at her hotel that was fairly well-attended.
 
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