On the Road: Wicked '59 Finning Across America in Opulence and Excess

[WickedSpeed]

Page 5 bitches.

-Wicked

 

[Wretch]

Shit has gone sideways for me and I have to bail out on this epic journey plan.

It's medical and I'll fill in some blanks later, once I have more details.

I just texted Paul with the sad news...

 

[BIggerDanno]

I was looking forward to meeting you!
Maybe some other time.
Take care dude!

 

[Vegas12]

I was looking forward to meeting you!
Maybe some other time.
Take care dude!

Just be thankful that your underwear drawer is now safe....

 

[BIggerDanno]

Just be thankful that your underwear drawer is now safe....

????

 

[Wretch]

Just be thankful that your underwear drawer is now safe....

I thought you understood that I was not going to steal underwear, from various members, for you to wear on your head in your strange role playing games.

I told you no and I meant that I wasn't going to do it...

...no matter how many blowjobs you promised to perform on me!

 

[Wretch]

Slept late this morning somehow and even almost got in 5 hours of rest but, I'm awake now and waiting for the pain medications to start working.

The short version is that I do finally have a date for my lumbar decompression, fusion with hardware, next month but, that wasn't going to stop me from going.

About two weeks ago, I thought that I had pulled a muscle in my upper back or had a little strain and that wasn't going to stop me either.

About five days ago I started having pain radiate down my left arm and thought fuck it, I'll just talk to the doctor with I go in for a scheduled CT scan and was thinking I'd push through it.

Three days ago, it went from agony every time I woke up to agony and weakness in my left hand/arm, that is still here with me now.

I couldn't even use the nail clippers to trim the nails on my right hand without my daughter's help and considered enlisting a co-driver to make the trip, I still had not given up.

Yesterday, the Doctor confirms what I had already suspected but, I still need an MRI to see where the issue is exactly, pinched nerve in my neck.
Taking bets on how many weeks it'll be before I get an appointment...
...I'm thinking it'll be a week before I find out and it'll be some time in September.

The drive home yesterday was miserable and it finally dawned on me that even with somebody along to help with the driving that I'd be fucking miserable...
...and I finally gave up on the idea of going along on the epic journey.

I'd still like to go to meet up with everyone but, I'd rather not have to go through this fucking writhing in pain dance that I'm doing even time I wake up, during such a trip...
...and I don't think anyone really wants to see/hear that either.

I'll see how I am in a few months after I get some rehab in and plan from there.

 

[WickedSpeed]

Two updates:
1. Route being shortended due to not running engine parts with Wretch to Vegas12 anymore and losing our mechanic escort. Vegas was the most out of the way stop on the way to San Diego so going to drop Vegas from the route and cancel our hotel stay there - Insanely cheap stays to be had on July 4 btw - Rio was only $21 for the night. Other big name hotels like Luxor and Ballys were about $40 for the night.

Looks like we will just shoot straight to San Diego from Phoenix on July 4 and have an extra day in San Diego to cool off before Atomic80 flies back home on the 6th.

2. Dameon has the car back from the mechanic as of this morning. However Dameon reports that the car is still down on power, not running as well as it should be and still dieseling when turning off despite the parts that were replaced (plugs, wires, rotor, etc) and the tuning (2 degrees retarded from stock to compensate for 91 octane gas in other states) that was done. The mechanic is blaming it on the gas in the car. Says low octane gas was put in the car previously. I'm suspicious and concerned that it's not as simple as that. Dameon isn't sure either but does say the mechanic could be correct and is going to look into getting 93 octane gas into the car to see if that resolves things before looking at other options - mechanical fuel pump somehow causing this, or carb tuning issues maybe?

-Wicked

 

[Fever500]

Timing

 

[WickedSpeed]

I’m assuming the mechanic set the timing correctly when he replaced the rotor/dist and tuned the car but yeah could be something as simple as goofing on this.

-Wicked

 

[Bandit Man]

That car only had a compression ratio of about 10.5 to 1 when it was new. Unless the bumped it up during the rebuild it should run fine on 87 octane, I would put the timing back to stock and run a lead additive if you feel you need to run something. Did he replace the points and condenser while he was fiddling with it? I know there was talk of swapping it over to a electric pick up.

 

[Vicious_Cycle]

Throw a can of octane boost into whatever is in the fuel tank and see how it behaves.
.

 

[WickedSpeed]

Checking photos of the invoice sheets for details on the electronics...
ignition wire set $54.22
spark plugs $51.38
Distributor cap $28.80
distributor rotor $15.93
Distributor rotor/wire labor $110
Distributor condensor $30.34
Points and condensor labor $110

So yes new condensor but the invoice doesn't say anything about "new points" - I assume the points are a part of the new condensor?

I have a new Stage 3 electric pick up kit at Dameon's to be installed hopefully when I arrive. Wretch was all set to do that, but now I think he will walk Dameon and I through upgrading that over the phone.

Returning the timing to stock would bring bring some power as I understand it. I do worry about pinging/knocking that I might not be able to feel/notice while driving it.

However the dieseling is still a red flag. What is causing the fuel to continue to ignite after the ignition has been turned off? That's what confuses me. Not sure how bad it is or how long it continues to run after shut-down.

-Wicked

 

[RobBase]

I always thought run-on (dieseling) was caused by built up carbon deposits in the combustion chamber.

 

[Fever500]

If timing is okay .... decarbonize that bitch ...

Carbon build-up could be igniting the mixture.

This is how we did it back in the 80's ...
Remove air cleaner. Start the car. Have a squirt bottle ( like a condiment bottle) full of water ready. Grab the throttle linkage ... rev it up and squirt water down the carb throat. Tip from your uncle Al ... keep face away from carb ...

You can also substitute trans fluid for the water. It acts like a solvent and helps break-up the carbon.

Did they perform a compression or leak-down test? Could be just worn out rings and valve seals.

 

[scottcolbath]

I always thought run-on (dieseling) was caused by built up carbon deposits in the combustion chamber.

Yeah. They create hot spots which can ignite fuel.

S.C.

 

[Wretch]

Timing

Ignition timing is the issue.

The module should help sort it but, there are a few other things to try yet.

 

[Wretch]

If timing is okay .... decarbonize that bitch ...

Carbon build-up could be igniting the mixture.

This is how we did it back in the 80's ...
Remove air cleaner. Start the car. Have a squirt bottle ( like a condiment bottle) full of water ready. Grab the throttle linkage ... rev it up and squirt water down the carb throat. Tip from your uncle Al ... keep face away from carb ...

You can also substitute trans fluid for the water. It acts like a solvent and helps break-up the carbon.

Did they perform a compression or leak-down test? Could be just worn out rings and valve seals.

Just rebuilt about 12 years back and has maybe only 6000 miles on it.

 

[Vegas12]

I thought you understood that I was not going to steal underwear, from various members, for you to wear on your head in your strange role playing games.

I told you no and I meant that I wasn't going to do it...

...no matter how many blowjobs you promised to perform on me!

Well dang.......

 

[BIggerDanno]

If wrong length of plugs were installed that could cause the hotspot for dieseling.
As for points, I used to buy points and condenser as a package deal.

 

[BigGar]

No downside to decarbonizing it. I used to use Marvel Mystery Oil (probably just transmission fluid). Get the car nice and hot, then remover air cleaner while it's running and pour it down the carburetor at a small trickle at first until the tailpipe is smoking heavily. At that point, increase the pour rate until the car stalls. Turn off the key and let it set overnight. Fire that bitch up in the morning and go drive the piss out of it. It will lay a smokescreen down for the first few minutes like nothing you've ever seen. I got pulled over in my '73 Cougar after doing it once. Policeman was laughing, and coughing. I explained my process and he let me go.

 

[BIggerDanno]

I've de-carboned more than one engine by sticking my foot in it and holding WOT through the gears 2-3 times. Lots of black soot out tailpipe.
Rickster's Vette was bad due to the long overlap cam and a dainty throttle foot.
Ran a lot better afterwards.

 

[Bandit Man]

No downside to decarbonizing it. I used to use Marvel Mystery Oil (probably just transmission fluid). Get the car nice and hot, then remover air cleaner while it's running and pour it down the carburetor at a small trickle at first until the tailpipe is smoking heavily. At that point, increase the pour rate until the car stalls. Turn off the key and let it set overnight. Fire that bitch up in the morning and go drive the piss out of it. It will lay a smokescreen down for the first few minutes like nothing you've ever seen. I got pulled over in my '73 Cougar after doing it once. Policeman was laughing, and coughing. I explained my process and he let me go.

The Italian Tune up.
Water, Marvels Mystery Oil, Berrymans, they all work.

 

[Hugh G. Rection]

When you retard the timing you also have to open the throttle blades (speed screw) to keep the idle speed up. Now the blades are open too far and allow the engine to run on when you shut it off.

Get good fuel in it. My experience running my junk on pump gas is that quality deteriorates badly after a couple weeks. My car will literally idle better on fresh gas.

 

[Vicious_Cycle]

If you use water, you can avoid the BigGar smoke show. Manage the throttle with one hand and pour with the other. Pour enough to make the RPMs sag, but not enough to stall it.
.

 

[BigGar]

If you use water, you can avoid the BigGar smoke show. Manage the throttle with one hand and pour with the other. Pour enough to make the RPMs sag, but don't stall it.
.

But I'm freeing up sticky valves and rings while I decarbon

 

[Vicious_Cycle]

Me too!
.

 

[BigGar]

Me too!
.

Steam is for sissies.
I go for real smoke.
Properly toxic as God intended.

 

[Artistimo]

Wow, a little late to this thread, but I don't get on here much. Sounds like a great adventure in the making! If you find yourself in a pickle and need parts or something, text me too. I don't know shit about cars other than normal maintenance, but I've painted a bunch of cars and bikes for a collector/hoarder nearby including Caddys and he knows everyone in WI with them that hit the car shows. The kind of guy that will drop what he's doing to help out.

 

[Master-Cylinder]

Make sure the carb isn't leaking or dribbling from some gasket. When they are idling poorly, as Huge Erection says, hacks always crank the idle speed up. it has to have a bit of air and fuel to run on.

 

[Wretch]

It may well be water in the fuel due to ethanol, especially since it spent a lot of time sitting.

I hate not having it in front of me to look over and listen to.

If I could con somebody into giving me a ride down this weekend, I could stand there and scratch my head in person.

 

[Dameon]

Timing

This has been the case in all of my personal experiences. True that my experience is limited. I'm just not old enough to have had a lot of vehicles with points/rotor and mechanical fuel pump.

I do have a level of trust in the mechanic that assured the timing is where it needs to be. He was honest in telling me the rubber isolation on the harmonic balancer (where the timing marks are) was deteriorated which would through the marks off. If he went through that much trouble to identify and repair that aspect, he probably put effort into setting the timing. He ended up with OEM spec minus 2 degrees. Yeah, lose a little power but allow for lower octane fuel.

 

[Dameon]

Make sure the carb isn't leaking or dribbling from some gasket. When they are idling poorly, as Huge Erection says, hacks always crank the idle speed up. it has to have a bit of air and fuel to run on.

This was one of my suspicions. No obvious leakage (fuel or air) and no issues with idle. Even very low idle. Smooth and steady.

 

[Dameon]

So, here is the latest.

When I picked up the car yesterday, I ran some errands to put some miles on the car. Ensure it was going to be sound for Wicked (to some degree). First thing I noticed is the car is an attention whore. I got more cat calls, waves and chatter than I have in any other car I've owned. Second thing I noticed is ride. A big, heavy car (not something I am commonly in) has a really muted feel. Steering is lazy, bumps are non-existent, and the car is surprisingly quiet. No squeaks, rattles or other annoying noises. This probably won't mean shit to Wicked, but his passengers will appreciate it.

Anyway, I've used STP Octane boost in many of my previous tuned turbo cars. Along with 93 octane fuel, it made a noticeable difference in engine sound and behavior. STP and Lucas are the top two boosters in most reviews. I stopped by Autozone, got some STP, drove by Racetrac, filled up with STP and 93. Within 10 miles, the engine sounded smoother, appreciable power increase and no more over-run (dieseling). I think with a steady diet of high octane juice, this car is going to run just fine.

I am also spoiled on throttle response and acceleration. This car does not like to jump off the line and hit 60mph in 2 seconds. That's not its forte.

 

[Dameon]

If I could con somebody into giving me a ride down this weekend, I could stand there and scratch my head in person.

Greyhound.

I wish I had the time to come retrieve you. Better you heal up and we'll make plans later.

 

[Dameon]

Carbon build-up could be igniting the mixture.

This is still a concern, but doesn't seem to be adversely affecting the engine for this issue. The previous owner drove to the beach at 10mph every month for 10+ years. No WOT, no long trips and a lot of sitting with cheap fuel in the tank.

 

[Master-Cylinder]

My father used to get in my grandmothers car and "blow the cobs out of it". Sometymes, there is a fine line between cobs and rods.

 

[Wretch]

Greyhound.

I wish I had the time to come retrieve you. Better you heal up and we'll make plans later.

Installing that electronic ignition module will make it better for Paul because as the points wear down it will be so subtle that he'll hardly notice it.
The electronic stuff will remove that wear as an issue and driveability will be much improved across the board.

I am curious as to how the rpm limiter is setup on that unit so, please do let me know how that works out!


Now I'm going outside to apply a trim piece on the Neon that I've been working on for three days, one handed, and
I finally have all the old glue off this morning and reshaped the plastic molding to make it straight again, last Sunday...

...then maybe I can play with my new holster and get the grip it has on my 938 a little freer, using the instruction of our beloved WarpSpeed, of course.

I just can't sit still...

...it can't be all the crack I smoke.

 

[Wretch]

My father used to get in my grandmothers car and "blow the cobs out of it". Sometymes, there is a fine line between cobs and rods.

Italian Tuneup is what I was taught to do on all the old customer's cars that came in for service, back in the day.
Some/most of those boats had tons of torque and let out very large black clouds of carbon when coaxed properly.

 

[Master-Cylinder]

Installing that electronic ignition module will make it better for Paul because as the points wear down it will be so subtle that he'll hardly notice it.
The electronic stuff will remove that wear as an issue and driveability will be much improved across the board.

I am curious as to how the rpm limiter is setup on that unit so, please do let me know how that works out!


Now I'm going outside to apply a trim piece on the Neon that I've been working on for three days, one handed, and
I finally have all the old glue off this morning and reshaped the plastic molding to make it straight again, last Sunday...

...then maybe I can play with my new holster and get the grip it has on my 938 a little freer, using the instruction of our beloved WarpSpeed, of course.

I just can't sit still...

...it can't be all the crack I smoke.

It would be cool if the new ignition ran off a crank trigger instead of a sprockets, chain, 90 De g. gears, shaft, bushings, springs, vacuum dashpot, hoses, and weights that probably need bushings.

 

[Wretch]

It would be cool if the new ignition ran off a crank trigger instead of a sprockets, chain, 90 De g. gears, shaft, bushings, springs, vacuum dashpot, hoses, and weights that probably need bushings.

I will be converting my old Toyota 4x4 to crank triggered ignition and upgrade the injection system as well, hopefully soon.

There are some good things about progress, it seems.

 

[BigGar]

I know my Imperial ran hugely better on 91 octane than regular 87 or mid-grade 89.
The knocking would disappear immediately. I might have poured in some sort of booster once or twice, but I don't recall that making any appreciable difference.
A steady diet of fresh premium fuel seemed to keep it happy.
I would have loved to try AVgas in it but didn't have any around when I had the car a few years back.

 

[Hugh G. Rection]

I have a crank trigger for my Slant. It's in a box on a shelf.

 

[WickedSpeed]

Very relieved to hear that the car seems to be running OK/better now. Hopefully it was just the old gas and that going forward, fresh gas at the pump without additives will be sufficient to enable the car to run well.

When Dameon first got the car, he reported the car was diseling and I did look this up online and ran across a bunch of posts saying that this typically was due to carbon build up and the solution was to spray water into the intake while revving the motor to rid itself of carbon deposits. That sounded terrifying to me - I ran the idea by Dameon who agreed it sounded a little too risky and suggested letting the mechanic work on the car first.

Like Wretch pointed out, the engine supposedly has very little mileage on it since the rebuild which also had been done after leaded gas had gone away so it was kind of odd that it'd have carbon deposits bad enough to cause dieseling in the first place. Regardless it seems to be running better now and hopefully with some more driving by Dameon, and then under me, it will continue to clear out and improve. I'll probably throw in a few bottles of Techron into the tank when I arrive and will be filling up at Costco (whose gas consistently tests high in terms of quality and detergents) whenever I can find one on the route. It helps that it's cheaper and I've got 5% or so cash back on Costco gas. At $6 a gal that comes out to 30 cents per gallon.

Now that it apparently doesn't diesel anymore... Looking at the power issue...

I really wish I knew more about the engine rebuild. My biggest question is - was it rebuilt to run properly on non-leaded gas? If so, I should be able to return to stock timing to get back a bunch of horsepower. Anybody know if there's a relatively easy way to find out short of having somebody hearing continually test driving the car at stock timing using lower and lower grade gas until it starts pinging? Then we'd know that one grade up on the octane rating will be sufficient, or if it pings at 91, that the timing does indeed need to be retarded after all.

Is my thought process correct?

Here's the latest map with Las Vegas removed.



July 1st, I leave point C and head to Jeff's in Dallas.
Point D to point E makes me the most nervous. 11+ hours drive. Looks hot too. It's also almost the same leg that my Dajiban build Van choked on last summer. Thankfully it choked really close to Dano's relatively speaking and we were able to be rescued via trailer.

-Wicked

 

[Wretch]

Very relieved to hear that the car seems to be running OK/better now. Hopefully it was just the old gas and that going forward, fresh gas at the pump without additives will be sufficient to enable the car to run well.

When Dameon first got the car, he reported the car was diseling and I did look this up online and ran across a bunch of posts saying that this typically was due to carbon build up and the solution was to spray water into the intake while revving the motor to rid itself of carbon deposits. That sounded terrifying to me - I ran the idea by Dameon who agreed it sounded a little too risky and suggested letting the mechanic work on the car first.

Like Wretch pointed out, the engine supposedly has very little mileage on it since the rebuild which also had been done after leaded gas had gone away so it was kind of odd that it'd have carbon deposits bad enough to cause dieseling in the first place. Regardless it seems to be running better now and hopefully with some more driving by Dameon, and then under me, it will continue to clear out and improve. I'll probably throw in a few bottles of Techron into the tank when I arrive and will be filling up at Costco (whose gas consistently tests high in terms of quality and detergents) whenever I can find one on the route. It helps that it's cheaper and I've got 5% or so cash back on Costco gas. At $6 a gal that comes out to 30 cents per gallon.

Now that it apparently doesn't diesel anymore... Looking at the power issue...

I really wish I knew more about the engine rebuild. My biggest question is - was it rebuilt to run properly on non-leaded gas? If so, I should be able to return to stock timing to get back a bunch of horsepower. Anybody know if there's a relatively easy way to find out short of having somebody hearing continually test driving the car at stock timing using lower and lower grade gas until it starts pinging? Then we'd know that one grade up on the octane rating will be sufficient, or if it pings at 91, that the timing does indeed need to be retarded after all.

Is my thought process correct?

Here's the latest map with Las Vegas removed.

View attachment 101418

July 1st, I leave point C and head to Jeff's in Dallas.
Point D to point E makes me the most nervous. 11+ hours drive. Looks hot too. It's also almost the same leg that my Dajiban build Van choked on last summer. Thankfully it choked really close to Dano's relatively speaking and we were able to be rescued via trailer.

-Wicked

Have Tony find his vacuum gauge and set the ignition timing with it.
You adjust it to pull the highest inches of Hg and then come back a degree or two, of the possible 360 degrees of rotation of the distributor.
Drive it and adjust as necessary from there.
You can always set it back with a light if it gets too complicated from there.

The cam timing itself could be out, not easily adjusted without new special parts, just from various parts replaced being aftermarket and none of them are perfect, every time...
...and then the grind of the cam could be one designed for best economy, which means very average performance.
There are just so many variables with most being unknown but all that said, if it runs good now, don't expect too much of the old lady and
make plans for making it better when you aren't so far from home base!

I would put the new ignition in though, even though the points would likely get you to your destination just fine.
It's a belt and suspenders thing, from my mind.

 

[Vicious_Cycle]

I got more cat calls, waves and chatter than I have in any other car I've owned.

...than any "other" car you've owned? Did you break the news to Wicked yet?
.

 

[WickedSpeed]

...than any "other" car you've owned? Did you break the news to Wicked yet?

What news?

A wiper motor has been sourced, and fully rebuilt and cosmetically restored by ClassicWipers.com, and should be arriving Friday or so. Super impressed with the service/communication and willingness to work around my unique situation by Sam at Classic Wipers - If anybody needs a wiper motor rebuilt or restored, he's apparently the best guy in the nation for this. Great price too.

-Wicked

 

[Master-Cylinder]

I had a water injection system on my olde race van. Worked like a charm, until if froze up one cold winter day. Should have been running windshield washer fluid in it, but I was too cheap.

 

[Dameon]

...than any "other" car you've owned? Did you break the news to Wicked yet?
.

Yeah, remove the "other". This is definitely his ride!

 

[Dragon 350]

Things already said you should pay attention to: use a lead additive because of non hardened valve seats. It needs higher octane or an octane booster.


My opinion: don't cheap out, you will pay for it in the end. If it's getting hotter than normal, it's likely pinging, pre igniting. Too much timing or octane too low. Points are easy to diagnose and easy to fix, electronic ignition is not and is not cheap. Full disclosure, I have an MSD ignition in my hot rod. If it came stock with points, I probably wouldn't change to msd. Probably.

I use sea foam to clean off the valve and combustion chamber, straight down the carb, don't get too carried away but give her a stout drink.

Good luck!