National Day of Disruption ~ all this for 15 bucks an hour . . .

wormser77

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They just passed a similar $15 an hour wage here. Bartenders and servers are gonna be making one hell of an hourly wage with tips.
 

Austin_F

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They just passed a similar $15 an hour wage here. Bartenders and servers are gonna be making one hell of an hourly wage with tips.
I recall seeing some posts regarding people not tipping in cities where servers are making $15 an hour. The servers said $15 an hour without tips was a big pay cut.
 

Z

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Drove past,,, a micky dees taday,,,, :cool:

Looked like,,, bizness,,,, azzzz usual......... :screama:
 

Dameon

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I recall seeing some posts regarding people not tipping in cities where servers are making $15 an hour. The servers said $15 an hour without tips was a big pay cut.
I don't tip if you make "normal" wages. Personally, I think a reduced minimum wage for servers is stupid. I never understood why that was a rule. Minimum wage should be minimum wage... I don't care what your chosen profession is.
 

nickslick

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On the one hand I feel like fuckem. On the other hand, I know I am next to be automated.

Hell, Google has already automated a lot of my marketing for my potential clients. Anybody can log in now and get traffic using adwords. Simple. Pay for play. Major hit for marketers like me over the years.

With the masses being the first to be automated out of a job, it is only a matter of time before we have to switch to a basic living system, or we will crash.

Before you call me a communist. Consider this. If our population doubles in size, and all trucking, food service, manufacturing, etc, has been automated, then how will people survive? The second question to ask is , when automation makes it so people DONT HAVE TO WORK, then what is the purpose of our daily lives then. Dont think about the present, think 50 years out.
 

Your Car Is Slow

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on an alternate tangent, google advertising has created an entire new market of jobs for people and companies that specialize in it.

its still suprising to me how many brick and mortar local businesses are completely clueless when it comes to online marketing tools they have at their disposal for free.
 

TLSer

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They just passed a similar $15 an hour wage here. Bartenders and servers are gonna be making one hell of an hourly wage with tips.
Sorry, but I'm not tipping somebody making $15 a hr.

Won't be long before the menu prices start going up to help with the higher wages and then they'll probably lose my business completely. I'm just a jerk that way.
 
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gobrian77

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Want it comes down to is the question of whether minimum wage should be a living wage. If there's a large group of people who are unable to find or qualify for jobs that pay more, and a higher minimum wage will help them decrease or eliminate entirely their dependence on other government assistance, it's a good idea- people have a right to be able to live on what they're paid if they're working full-time.

Things are different for employers, of course- in Thailand when the minimum wage increased, my payroll went up substantially, and I had to raise salaries across-the-board as workers in higher positions with more responsibility were suddenly not making enough to offset their increased responsibilities or reflect their seniority over workers earning minimum wage, and I both increased prices and took a cut in my bottom line.

It's a tough issue.
 

MadRussian

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I know a few guys who went to college and got an engineering degree.
First job out of college, one making $19/h as CAD drafter, the other $22.

They could of saved 4 years and $100K and got a job at McDs...
 

Terry_Schiavo

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um... hilarious all the people "for" this have never had to make a fucking payroll or pay the taxes associated with it.

Say you give a "good" guy a raise... it usually nets you additional missed work days in the future because now they are not putting the money to good use.
Same thing with giving out paychecks mid week.

IF I were required to pay someone $15/hr for entry level... they had better wow my fucking pants off. I heard a business owner said if he were required to pay that kinda wage... he would fire 2 of the 3 guys he has working at $13/hr... and give the 3rd one a $5/hr raise to do the work of the other 2...lol
 

wormser77

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Sorry, but I'm not tipping somebody making $15 a hr.

Won't be long before the menu prices start going up to help with the higher wages and then they'll probably lose my business completely. I'm just a jerk that way.
I think it's rediculous as well and I work in, and own a business in a tipping industry, a tavern.
Many states have a tipping industry minimum wage lower than a standard minimum wage, Washington isn't one of them.
They are going to raise it in steps over 3 years up to $15, right now we're at $9.60.
Some restaurants are already going to an automatic 16% gratuity on all bills which I think is bulls hit and will never go to.
 

nickslick

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on an alternate tangent, google advertising has created an entire new market of jobs for people and companies that specialize in it.

its still suprising to me how many brick and mortar local businesses are completely clueless when it comes to online marketing tools they have at their disposal for free.

WHEREAS before, money was spread out over 1000s of small marketing companies everywhere across many countries. (remember google is worldwide.)

WHEREAS now, money is funneled into the hands of one company through its many new employees (who now have a steady high paying job but represent 1/1000 of the people they have marginally replaced)

and by the way, Google's product is just software, after all. All it takes is a few well paid smart programmers, lots of techs, and some order takers. Much more profitable to the few (primarily two?) that own it.




THINK WAY THE FUCK BACK! CAN YOU EVEN REMEMBER NOW WHAT LIFE WAS LIKE BEFORE GOOGLE?

I know, I know... Im not in Marketing NickSlick,, so you can fuck off!

Guess what? Your next. Automation in every form of our lives is around the corner my friends. It will start at the bottom, but sooner than later it will have the potential to replace almost any human at any semi-repetitive task.

I for one, welcome our new robot overlords.
 
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luckystrike

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On the one hand I feel like fuckem. On the other hand, I know I am next to be automated.

Hell, Google has already automated a lot of my marketing for my potential clients. Anybody can log in now and get traffic using adwords. Simple. Pay for play. Major hit for marketers like me over the years.

With the masses being the first to be automated out of a job, it is only a matter of time before we have to switch to a basic living system, or we will crash.

Before you call me a communist. Consider this. If our population doubles in size, and all trucking, food service, manufacturing, etc, has been automated, then how will people survive? The second question to ask is , when automation makes it so people DONT HAVE TO WORK, then what is the purpose of our daily lives then. Dont think about the present, think 50 years out.
50? I'm thinking like 15...probably less

I'm generally an optimist, but recent developments in automation and AI has me worried. I'm good company with the likes of Hawking and Musk ringing the alarm bells.
 

nickslick

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are you going to shrug when there are less than 50 companies in the world that are less than 80% automated?

including the automated automation?
 

Your Car Is Slow

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it breeds countless new jobs developing and maintaining said equipment...and designing and developing the next generation of THAT machinery replacement.

im sure just about everyone and their mom had this same discussion on whatever "facebook" existed during the industrial revolution.

its not a new concept, nor will it be the end of life as we know it.
 

Vegas12

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Want it comes down to is the question of whether minimum wage should be a living wage. If there's a large group of people who are unable to find or qualify for jobs that pay more, and a higher minimum wage will help them decrease or eliminate entirely their dependence on other government assistance, it's a good idea- people have a right to be able to live on what they're paid if they're working full-time.

Things are different for employers, of course- in Thailand when the minimum wage increased, my payroll went up substantially, and I had to raise salaries across-the-board as workers in higher positions with more responsibility were suddenly not making enough to offset their increased responsibilities or reflect their seniority over workers earning minimum wage, and I both increased prices and took a cut in my bottom line.

It's a tough issue.


I think the problem is the current generation wants it now.

An interview on the local news tonight was a young woman saying how she and her two kids can't live on minimum wage.

I'm yelling at the TV, "YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO!!!"


When I got separate quarters while in the Air Force, 4 of us rented a house. Nobody was driving a 'sclade or had 2 kids. (Though I did park my CR250 in the living room)

Got married and we bought an 1100' house.

Didn't have a kid for nearly 4 years or until I was making 6 figures.

Even then, my brother rented a room from us until he could make enough to get his own place.

Minimum wage should be entry level, a stepping stone....it's not meant to raise a family, buy a house etc...
 

gobrian77

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I think full-time minimum-wage workers should at least be able to support themselves at a nominal level. A high-school drop-out single-mother should be able to afford basic necessities if she works 40-50 hours per week, IMHO, even if it's at Burger King- she doesn't need to get rich off it. I agree it's not meant for raising/starting a family or buying a house, but it should at least be survivable, and some people have no other choice. There are people who- for lack of a better word- are morons with no skills and no real ability to do better (or who made bad choices like having kids when they were single and way too young- I'm not saying these women are all morons, and I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush here), but who are at least willing to work- they should be able to live on the income they earn from the menial jobs for which they can qualify. It's not only kids working for minimum-wage.

I see your point, but if that's the only work someone can get (and, for some people, that's pretty much it for them), is it better they can support themselves, or better that they live on government assistance? I don't think it's supposed to be a non-survivable source of income but, rather, a starting point from which to move on. It should rent a crappy apartment in a crappy part of town, allow for the use of public transportation, and feed and clothe a parent and a kid at a basic level- it should be something you want to improve upon, but it shouldn't mean you have to live on the street.

Maybe you're right, and $15 is too much- I'm definitely out-of-touch with expenses in most places in the US these days- I just like to toss out these 'liberal views' to upset Hodor/Hagrid, who I hope is yelling at his computer screen as he tears into his fifth Big Mac (prepared by a minimum-wage worker) of the day.:wink:
 
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gobrian77

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Like I mentioned, though, I have personal experience at the other end of the spectrum, when I had a payroll of 82 employees and had to make upward adjustments for nearly all of them- I ended up consolidating jobs and paying the best people more and increasing their responsibilities and letting the ones I kept around because they did an OK job and were cheap go. In the end, I made do with something like 65 people- I still paid out quite a bit more than I had before the minimum-wage increase, but not nearly as much as I would have if I kept them all. I offered higher-paying positions, but fewer of them overall.

it's very difficult to find the proper balance.
 
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I think us old guys are a bit guilty of looking through rose-tinted glasses, sure when I left school it was easy to get into a low paid, semi-skilled job and pretty quickly work your way up to decent money. These days a lot of kids are finding that most entry-level jobs are just make-work positions that have little hope of going anywhere.
Technology is already at the point where a tiny percentage of the working population is all that's needed to supply our real needs and everyone else is in a bullshit job that only serves to keep the idea of 'the economy' rolling.
Society is going to have to engage with the idea of a seismic shift in how we organise and reward work. It is a terrifying prospect.
 

hagrid

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Maybe you're right, and $15 is too much- I'm definitely out-of-touch with expenses in most places in the US these days- I just like to toss out these 'liberal views' to upset Hodor/Hagrid, who I hope is yelling at his computer screen as he tears into his fifth Big Mac (prepared by a minimum-wage worker) of the day.:wink:
:up:

My Note 7 had Skoal leavins' all over the screen when I read some of your earlier missives in this thread.
 

CID

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I think full-time minimum-wage workers should at least be able to support themselves at a nominal level. A high-school drop-out single-mother should be able to afford basic necessities if she works 40-50 hours per week, IMHO, even if it's at Burger King- she doesn't need to get rich off it. I agree it's not meant for raising/starting a family or buying a house, but it should at least be survivable, and some people have no other choice. There are people who- for lack of a better word- are morons with no skills and no real ability to do better (or who made bad choices like having kids when they were single and way too young- I'm not saying these women are all morons, and I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush here), but who are at least willing to work- they should be able to live on the income they earn from the menial jobs for which they can qualify. It's not only kids working for minimum-wage.
this
 

Terry_Schiavo

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I think full-time minimum-wage workers should at least be able to support themselves at a nominal level. A high-school drop-out single-mother should be able to afford basic necessities if she works 40-50 hours per week, IMHO, even if it's at Burger King- she doesn't need to get rich off it. I agree it's not meant for raising/starting a family or buying a house, but it should at least be survivable, and some people have no other choice. There are people who- for lack of a better word- are morons with no skills and no real ability to do better (or who made bad choices like having kids when they were single and way too young- I'm not saying these women are all morons, and I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush here), but who are at least willing to work- they should be able to live on the income they earn from the menial jobs for which they can qualify. It's not only kids working for minimum-wage.
Ill give you the quick & dirty of what it breeds. In the hood... brothers & sisters hang around the fast food joint running off potential paying customers. They use facilities & materials ment for "paying" customers... costing the business money.
Then you have the hood baby mama drama. Next thing you know someone is screaming "World Star"... and your place becomes a famous backdrop.
Thats directly from a friend that owned ~25 Burger Kings in the NYC area. Once he scaled back the shit stores... his life was much easier.
 
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I remember when McDonald's was high school Work...But not having a manufacturing base will do that....
 

Terry_Schiavo

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Also lets put some basic things on the table here. Americans, as a whole, think some things are "below" them. Like cleaning jobs. You cant fill those positions, even at $15/hr. And lets not forget... these entry level jobs are not people that can work on their own. They need supervision like toddlers. I have laborers on staff... they stand around with their thumb up their ass trying to avoid work. The idle time should be devoted to cleaning the shop, vehicles. or time wasting task. I could catch them just after start time or just prior to quitting... just on cruise or standing around. Trying to put shit off til tomorrow. So one day I sent them all home for 3 days. Out of the 3... one wasnt even back 15 minutes before I sent him home a week to think about his job priorities. The other 2 got the message.
In construction... these idiots cost money. One spilled a 5 gallon bucket of paint off a scaffolding. One broke a plate glass window with a trailer hitch. One dude shows up without a tool belt. Usually the "good" guys use us as a stepping stone. Im ok with that to a degree. I prefer to have a guy that "needs" a check...he's more willing to show up. The guy that "wants" a check is eager to learn but is looking to pick your pockets. The struggle of business. :(
 

CID

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It's always a one way street with owners that hire cheap labor...... They're doing them a favor, they dont work hard... they are lazy..... they cost me money......what a crock of shit.
 

Terry_Schiavo

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It's always a one way street with owners that hire cheap labor...... They're doing them a favor, they dont work hard... they are lazy..... they cost me money......what a crock of shit.
show me the way Sensei! :wink: Again... we dont hire "cheap" labor... starting is $13/hr for laborers. I will let you hire my next guys from the open casting call. You get everything from "pirates" to "knowitalls". :lol:
 

CID

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anything short of $20 is cheap to me. :p

I will let you hire my next guys
Thats the guy it sounds like you need to fire

Some of the dumbest mother fuckers in the world are in the military and yet they get up every morning and go to work....why? It's about leadership.
 
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Pat830

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https://www.technologyreview.com/s/515926/how-technology-is-destroying-jobs/

There are people out there who at best could work in a factory doing a repetitive task. Automation has replaced them. They are now on the dole. They reproduce, their offspring won't have much opportunity and will most likely end up in the same situation. The burden they put on society is becoming too much to be ignored. There are no good answers.
 

Terry_Schiavo

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anything short of $20 is cheap to me. :p
Thats the guy it sounds like you need to fire
Some of the dumbest mother fuckers in the world are in the military and yet they get up every morning and go to work....why? It's about leadership.
yeah but those guys kinda sign their life away with the UCMJ & the military provides housing. :wink: Plus at best you guys might see 2% of the overall population. Wait til you see the other 98%. :lol:

Keep in mind "my" starting wage is the minimum they would make. Lots of OT available & mandatory (theres your $20/hr). And we provide a telephone.

What do I expect for that? Clean appearance, a valid drivers license, and the ability to show up for work.
The bar is low...lol.


Now the real challenge... finding $50,000++ a month for payroll! :D This aint Joes Cycle shop that borrows $3,000 to buy motorcycles from another business but cant pay his mechanics.
 

CID

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Now the real challenge... finding $50,000++ a month for payroll! :D
I get what yer saying, but respect is a two way street. If you think you've got the hardest job in the company, animosity and contempt for everybody else is usually the only thing left because everybody else is just there to serve your beck and call.

"I'm paying you by the hour and therefore I own your hour" .... wrong. We've already pointed out that people HAVEN'T signed their lives away, so you can't have it both ways.

If it were that way the interview would start with "So... I'm gonna need somebody at my beck and call to do anything I want while they are on the clock or off, then go home and use food stamps to feed themselves because I wont pay you enough to afford food AND rent" -- since thats the REAL truth.

It's pretty easy to blame the workers standing on the line for the failures of the car manufactures.... but in reality? Getting joe to show up to work or that hes paid to mich FOR his work as the reason for the failure of a biz is a crock of shit.

(Im talking in context about a McDonalds sized company raking in BILLIONS of dollars.... BILLIONS.... but wont pay a living wage... not yer 50 man tyring to build a small biz construction job)
 
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Terry_Schiavo

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I get what yer saying, but respect is a two way street. If you think you've got the hardest job in the company, animosity and contempt for everybody else is usually the only thing left because everybody else is just there to serve your beck and call.
"I'm paying you by the hour and therefore I own your hour" .... wrong. We've already pointed out that people HAVEN'T signed their lives away, so you can't have it both ways.
If it were that way the interview would start with "So... I'm gonna need somebody at my beck and call to do anything I want while they are on the clock or off, then go home and use food stamps to feed themselves because I wont pay you enough to afford food AND rent" -- since thats the REAL truth.
It's pretty easy to blame the workers standing on the line for the failures of the car manufactures.... but in reality? Getting joe to show up to work or that hes paid to mich FOR his work as the reason for the failure of a biz is a crock of shit.
(Im talking in context about a McDonalds sized company raking in BILLIONS of dollars.... BILLIONS.... but wont pay a living wage... not yer 50 man tyring to build a small biz construction job)
I dont expect slaves for the hourly wage. I offer a solid, bankable 40hr+/week job for entry level. (better than E1 pay)
Not like some of the broke asses here that give 15hrs 1 week and 20 the next or just daylabor what they need.

Do you want more money? Great... there's Saturdays available for OT (if desired) Want a learn a trade? We got some great Pros on staff.

In the case of these large companies... look at the gross vs net. They operate at extremely thin margins. Billions sounds like alot... til you start looking at the percentages. We operate at 35% margins. Walmart operates at 3%.
 

CID

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Billions sounds like alot... til you start looking at the percentages. We operate at 35% margins. Walmart operates at 3%.
Look if yer gonna stick up for up for multi-national corporations and use the same BIG OIL margin bullshit as an argument against paying a living wage good luck to you AND your biz.

The tides AND population are changing and if big biz wannabees keeps making the same arguments as REAL big biz does they'll be paying $15 in Florida very soon too, watch and see.

Then when you get eatin up by the larger guys dont come a cryin about 'margins'.... it'll be to late.

Morgan's just itching for that debate next election I bet.


bottom line -- stop yer bitching and just jack up prices and get this inflation going like people want. :lol:
 
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Terry_Schiavo

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Look if yer gonna stick up for up for multi-national corporations and use the same BIG OIL margin bullshit as an argument against paying a living wage good luck to you AND your biz.
The tides AND population are changing and if big biz wannabees keeps making the same arguments as REAL big biz does they'll be paying $15 in Florida very soon too, watch and see.
Morgan's just itching for that debate next election I bet.
not sticking up for them.
However when you move to a "mandatory" wage... now we dont hire entry level.
Now we start taking from the pool of guys that already have employment or folks that have at least 2 years of secondary schooling.

Last I checked... Oil & Gas has entry level jobs too. You aint sitting around the hood to get those. You are also putting in long hours. Can you make 6 figures there? Sure. Sub $50/barrel prices aint helping that industry though. :wink:
 

CID

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Last I checked... Oil & Gas has entry level jobs too. You aint sitting around the hood to get those. You are also putting in long hours. Can you make 6 figures there? Sure. Sub $50/barrel prices aint helping that industry though. :wink:
What I'm saying is this -- HOWEVER we get there --- If you're working 40+ hours a week in America, no matter what the job... you should be able to afford rent, food, clothing, and transportation expenses in 2016 without government assistance, state or federal. Period.

Make whatever argument against that you'd like, but I feel that if you can't pay your employees a living wage for full time work, you shouldn't be in business.

If you're a largecompany and you employ mostly minimum wage part time yet you've got full time corporate millionaires and shareholders taking yearly profit bonuses in the millions you should get taxed the fuck out of business since the rest of us tax payers are the ones buying the food stamps for your employees.

That is unless of we ALL go back to trading wage for being indentured servants.
 

ZX11 Man

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both of my kids, 18 and 20, found new jobs last week, both of them over $12 an hour and they are both fairly "entry level jobs", Amazon and UPS. Both companies are really geared toward students as they have very flexible schedules and both have very good tuition assistance. They were both hired on the same day they applied. Its not hard to find decent jobs if you just look!
 

Hapo

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...I want $15 an hour...maybe I could buy a Busa...

...more likely to lose job, methinks...
 

Terry_Schiavo

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What I'm saying is this -- HOWEVER we get there --- If you're working 40+ hours a week in America, no matter what the job... you should be able to afford rent, food, clothing, and transportation expenses in 2016 without government assistance, state or federal. Period.

Make whatever argument against that you'd like, but I feel that if you can't pay your employees a living wage for full time work, you shouldn't be in business...
I cant control property, food, or insurance costs. I can only control what I charge for the work we do plus what we pay our people to do the job.
My guys still buy from little shit from Home Depot... well at least on the stuff we don't order from pro source type companies. I cant stop them from spending $3 on lunch at McD's vs the local sammich guy that charges $8+.
I can feel good about spending the $8 with the local guy but Im certainly not going to UP my paid wages so he can continue to exist as an "option" for lunch.
 

CID

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I cant control property, food, or insurance costs. I can only control what I charge for the work we do plus what we pay our people to do the job.
My guys still buy from little shit from Home Depot... well at least on the stuff we don't order from pro source type companies. I cant stop them from spending $3 on lunch at McD's vs the local sammich guy that charges $8+.
I can feel good about spending the $8 with the local guy but Im certainly not going to UP my paid wages so he can continue to exist as an "option" for lunch.
Cost of living standards aren't gauged on whether or not somebody eats bologna or a BigMac for lunch.

It's based on the consumer price index of an area compared to other areas.

Surely you base your customer charges on that same type of statistic right? ..... or do you just throw a number up in the air and hope somebody chooses YOUR price? Or is it all about your profit margin and then you work down from there.
 

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I think full-time minimum-wage workers should at least be able to support themselves at a nominal level. A high-school drop-out single-mother should be able to afford basic necessities if she works 40-50 hours per week, IMHO, even if it's at Burger King- she doesn't need to get rich off it. I agree it's not meant for raising/starting a family or buying a house, but it should at least be survivable, and some people have no other choice. There are people who- for lack of a better word- are morons with no skills and no real ability to do better (or who made bad choices like having kids when they were single and way too young- I'm not saying these women are all morons, and I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush here), but who are at least willing to work- they should be able to live on the income they earn from the menial jobs for which they can qualify. It's not only kids working for minimum-wage.

I see your point, but if that's the only work someone can get (and, for some people, that's pretty much it for them), is it better they can support themselves, or better that they live on government assistance? I don't think it's supposed to be a non-survivable source of income but, rather, a starting point from which to move on. It should rent a crappy apartment in a crappy part of town, allow for the use of public transportation, and feed and clothe a parent and a kid at a basic level- it should be something you want to improve upon, but it shouldn't mean you have to live on the street.

Maybe you're right, and $15 is too much- I'm definitely out-of-touch with expenses in most places in the US these days- I just like to toss out these 'liberal views' to upset Hodor/Hagrid, who I hope is yelling at his computer screen as he tears into his fifth Big Mac (prepared by a minimum-wage worker) of the day.:wink:
The simple problem is the minimum wagers will ALWAYS live outside thier means so it doesn't make a damn difference how much the paycheck is, they will spendit and more.
 

bikefrk

Two Wheels. Any Surface.
Joined
Dec 12, 2001
Messages
17,607
Location
WestSide,Mi
show me the way Sensei! :wink: Again... we dont hire "cheap" labor... starting is $13/hr for laborers. I will let you hire my next guys from the open casting call. You get everything from "pirates" to "knowitalls". :lol:
Fresh out of high school, pass a drug test and dmv check here and you are making $15 an hour to fucking start. BUT, you have to put in 40 a week and work a shitty shift. Can't get them to do that. I started here in 1993 at $7.50 an hour and have never seen an increase in my wage to match the starting wage bump. I make decent money. We are on unlimited OT currently. 6 or 7 work weeks have been the norm for me the last two months. Paying stuff off and banking the rest.
 

CID

BAMF+
Joined
Feb 27, 2002
Messages
20,319
Location
E8's 248th
(this falls under the "however we get there" statement)

....on January 25, 2012, the Fed announced they would stop using the core CPI and rely instead on the Personal consumption expenditures price index.
 

bikefrk

Two Wheels. Any Surface.
Joined
Dec 12, 2001
Messages
17,607
Location
WestSide,Mi
And enjoying my lunch break currently. I may work for some form of the devil but they have been paying my bills for many years. BUT, a coworker just had to declare bankruptcy. No toys. Just a damn house, couple of cars and that is it. I tried to show him years ago my plan but he had it all figured out. Same wage and he goes bk while we don't. All I'm saying is you can give people money, it is up to them to prioritize what is important and what to do with the money. You can't legislate this. $15 an hour bumps a no knowledge rookie closer to my wage and in turn discounts the learning and time I have put in. Plain and simple.
 
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