My friends are fighting back against the Government taking our Mt in Hawaii

   #1  
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My family and friends are fighting back against the Government who wants the Hawaiians off the land they own and Mt Mauna kea which is Hawaiian owned land via the illegel taking of the land by the US Government thru false claims

 
   #4  

maui

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What reason do they want the land for?
they are putting a telescope up there to study the Sun (I think) and learn more about its affects on global warming etc.

I suspect that ultimately while the Hawaiian people are out in great numbers now, the same thing will happen there that happened on Maui when they did the same protest/blocking of another telescope. That resulted in multiple arrest, and the eventual building to the telescope.
 
   #5  

tinhead

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I don't think many in The Heartland are going to give a shit.

“I really am amazed that a judge sitting on an island in the Pacific can issue an order that stops the president of the United States from what appears to be clearly his statutory and constitutional power,” Mr. Sessions said this week in an interview on “The Mark Levin Show,” a conservative talk radio program.
Full article Jeff Sessions Dismisses Hawaii as ‘an Island in the Pacific’
 
   #12  
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Cisco San Jose
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Same thing happen when I was a little kid in Hawaii, No one cares about the people of Hawaii who are the rightful owner of the islands stolen from US.

 
   #15  

maui

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Same thing happen when I was a little kid in Hawaii, No one cares about the people of Hawaii who are the rightful owner of the islands stolen from US.

There’s two stories here. Yes the Hawaiian government was overthrown.

As far as lands go, the Hawaiians sold lands (most not all) largely during the time of the monarchy. As such claiming “stolen lands” after the party selling the land has been paid is a false narrative.

Yes when the land was sold the value was low. It was market value though. No one foresaw the coming of jet liners.
 
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   #17  

tinhead

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There’s two stories here. Yes the Hawaiian government was overthrown.

As far as lands go, the Hawaiians sold lands (most not all) largely during the time of the monarchy. As such claiming “stolen lands” after the party selling the land has been paid is a false narrative.
Was the deal set up by the whitepower realty agency?
 
   #19  

maui

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Right faced with the US government forcibly annexing Hawaii you’re suggesting that a tiny kingdom should have fought to their certain death.
 
   #20  

tinhead

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I thought we liberated them from the clutches of an opressive monarchy?
 
   #21  

maui

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I thought we liberated them from the clutches of an opressive monarchy?
Well under the Monarchy they owned literally nothing, the king had everything, they didnt know any better. Pretty much like socialism.
 
   #22  

tinhead

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Well under the Monarchy they owned literally nothing, the king had everything, they didnt know any better. Pretty much like socialism.
They are free to rent it back from the people who bought it.
 
   #23  

maui

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They are free to rent it back from the people who bought it.
The King renting to the Hawaiians or the people who bought the land? In the second case that already happens.

It’s a sore subject in Hawaii.

Theres no question that some shady shit went down. The hard part is figuring out what and where the Hawaiians want to go from here.
 
   #24  

tinhead

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How about the same place the Alaskans, Montanans and Carolinians and Dakotans and Californians went, America?
I don't hear about alasko-americans, but hawaiian-americans seem to revel in the label.
 
   #25  

maui

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Indigenous people in the US have/had negotiated lands, treaties, nation rights etc. The Hawaiians not at all.
 
   #26  

maui

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And the Hawaiians are partially to blame as they have yet to come together in a unified voice.
 
   #28  

tinhead

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As a native of Connecticut, there's no need for a treaty between the U.S. and Connecticut. There are a couple Indian reservations here, they are rich as hell the tribes run multibillion dollar casinos, saw Elvis at one last night.

Should we give the Hawaiian protesters a ranch, like those dingbats in Oregon wanted?
 
   #30  
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Unfortunately the reality is they are wasting their time. This project is a done deal. "Lands" all over the world have been "stolen" many times throughout history. It happens. As long as they leave mine alone until after I am dead then I am happy but with Pokeyhauntis, Crazy Bernie, Buttgiger and the likes of AOC you never know!
 
   #31  

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Indigenous people in the US have/had negotiated lands, treaties, nation rights etc. The Hawaiians not at all.

Is there any unwanted crappy land.. like the American Indians got available? Most tribes got some useless lands.
 
   #39  
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We are not in national and world news on our problem with our mountain
 
   #40  

maui

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they're protesting here every day. I see them on the highway (the side) waiving flags. They have flags on their cars and trucks. It's the biggest protest I"ve seen in a long time.

as much as I feel for them on the issue, I would rather see them protest OHA (Office of Hawaiian Affairs) for not giving them the lands for their families to live on that have been authorized by the state decades ago.

p[rotesting the top of a mountain when to the Hawaiians, all lands were sacred, seems unfocused to me.

their problem, still, is one of a leadership vacuum. 16 or 17 people who all claim to be the leader. Royal blood is one of the arguments. The "Rightful King" is another one. As soon as someone steps up and has actually leadership qualities they get sabotaged by the rest.

it's a bucket of crabs, as soon as one starts to crawl to the top, the others drag him back into the bucket.

meanwhile high profile celebrities will do photo opts, everyone will feel good for a bit. I really hope something good comes from this (with no idea what that would be) but the history of these deals is 100% not in their favor.
 
   #41  

maui

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Mamoa is from Nanakuli (Oahu), he has more ties here then the Rock does as far as I know who was born in California and at best just been a visitor here. Nanakuli is one of the roughest neighborhoods on Oahu. Severely depressed economically.
 
   #42  
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Kind of funny actually with the other telescopes that are there already. This is a lost fight anyway. It does however help people feel better.
 
   #43  

maui

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as I mentioned before, they did this on Maui a couple years ago, I can see the telescope they blocked from my back yard....
 
   #44  

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The wiki says....
In 1993, the US Congress passed a joint Apology Resolution regarding the overthrow; it was signed by President Bill Clinton. The resolution apologized and said that the overthrow was illegal in the following phrase: "The Congress — on the occasion of the 100th anniversary of the illegal overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii on January 17, 1893, acknowledges the historical significance of this event which resulted in the suppression of the inherent sovereignty of the Native Hawaiian people." The Apology Resolution also "acknowledges that the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii occurred with the active participation of agents and citizens of the United States and further acknowledges that the Native Hawaiian people never directly relinquished to the United States their claims to their inherent sovereignty as a people over their national lands, either through the Kingdom of Hawaii or through a plebiscite or referendum".
Waiting for somebody to add...
....but now we want to build a telescope, so go fuck yourselves.
:lol:
 
   #45  

maui

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The wiki says....


Waiting for somebody to add...
:lol:
seeing only part of what that res did, I can see your confusion. The fed also surrendered to the Hawaiians one of the islands back as part fo that deal.

Kahoolawe

when I was a kid I could watch F4 Phantoms do bombing runs on that island...the military had used as a bombing practice site since WWII.

they gave it back, unexploded bombs and all.

so telescopes are pretty low on the we'll fuck with you scale
 
   #46  

CID

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Regardless of a 1800's fight for sovereignty I do believe in state autonomy... throw it up for a referendum and if it gets voted down -- then so be it. If a few people in NY can throw out a giant like Amazon, surely Hawaii can tell the feds to fuck off.

Besides.... land based telescopes are sooo 70's. Get that puppy up into space for crying out loud
 

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Do you know why Popeye beat up the pope???

Because the pope went to Mount Olive.
 

maui

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Latest update from my sister about Mauna kea mountain

I would guess theres more to the story then this. Also adverse possession would most likely apply and they'd lose that. Locally the protest have really died back a lot. Still going, but maybe 5% of the people. Lots of others driving around with upside down flags on their trucks etc. It's not dead, but it is getting really small....
 
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