I'm not opposed to 'doing something'- I'm opposed to unilateral protectionist tariffs. They might have worked had Trump enlisted trading partners and allies like the EU, Canada, and Mexico to impose similar tariffs, but, instead, he decided to play the tough guy with them as well, alienating them and starting smaller-scale tariff wars. China was ALWAYS going to stand up to him- it's been their stance for decades in the face of tariffs, and they'd made presidents back off before by economically attacking their voter bases. The USA is a big part of their market, but it's not the only market, and they're too strong and diversified for us to do it alone.
I would vote for your Airedale over Trump...
China 'too strong and diversified for us to do it alone'
He's been saying for months that 'China is paying the tariffs' and that they're adding billions to the US coffers- wouldn't implementing the tariffs have been the 'Christmas gift'? He basically admitted who really pays the price (in the form of what is essentially a tax increase) after all.
These are the exact attitudes that got us here in the first place.
Nice cherry-picking and completely missing the actual points I was making- what were you saying the other day about a 'straw man'? I never said anything about 'complacency' or not doing anything (in fact, I clearly stated that- if protectionist tariffs were the way Trump insisted on going- it should have been done bilaterally with our allies and trading partners instead of the USA taking the brunt of China's retaliatory moves). You know what else isn't a 'winning strategy'? Doing something that's already been shown not to work. I also said if he started it, he shouldn't have backed off because now he looks weak.
Way to much wishie-washy consensus style leadership for my taste.
Yeah, well, your protectionist 'taste' doesn't seem to be working, and the guy who wasn't elected for his 'survivalist traits' is sure showing those traits by backing off when it looks like this will hurt him more politically than he bargained for. And, while I have both agreements and disagreements with Snail's position (which you don't need to lump me in with- I've been clearly stating my own positions for years), I also live in a place where I've been seeing the effects of protectionist tariffs for 18 years- I know what it's like to live with them better than anyone else here, and I have a perspective on them that no one else here has (spoiler alert- they suck for consumers).Way to much wishie-washy consensus style leadership for my taste.
You and Snail have the same thing going politically. The reason Snail didn't like Trump from the get go was that he saw Trump as a "unilateral" type person. Again.... in my straw man type of statement above -- That style of leadership is exactly WHY he got elected.
While it might not seem to work, one thing IS doing -- it kicks the American public (and the rest of the world) in the ass and helps wake them up to what is going on and what needs to be done. He's not going to fix it, since this is a multi-generational thing, but he's sure as hell' getting the discussion going!
Who else here lives in a place with high protectionist tariffs? I think I'm the only one, and that gives me a perspective no one else here has. There may be others, but I don't think so. It a big reason why I'm against tariffs- I've lived with them for a long time.
Yes it has, but Xi can withstand the hits way better than Trump can- it's why he hasn't backed off an inch- he has no worries about holding his position of power- Trump is desperate for a second term, and can't let the economy slide or he's in serious jeopardy.
I don't have your history or viewpoint, so I'm all ears -- Gimme your details on why tariffs are bad. I know they fucked over Snail and understand his viewpoint, what have they done to you?
Understood, ...won't happen again.
Isn't that what this is all about int he first place? We 'consumers' of foreign products have been living on cheap prices and the producers that produce JOBS locally have been thrown out of market because of it.
Points ...I can't argue.
Good debating with you- we may not agree with each other, but at least we understand each other.
I'm,,,,,,,,,, good 
Gold n' silver,,,,,,,,,,,,, 
Of all the posts on this thread this one hits it on the head for the most part. China is one of the biggest global players now we all know BUT much of their product comes from US PROVIDED IP that runs equipment to setting up factories ALL with little overhead or capitol needed provided by US manufacturers years ago! Over the last 20 years the Demoncrats just let China continue to wave the carrot in front of short term profits for US Manufacturing being the greedy whores we are gobbled them up like twinkies. These IDIOTS DO NOT PLAY even remotely to the same rules we do here and in fact most of the world. China is much better positioned to endure a long trade war with the US because unlike here people will boo hoo and cry (justifiably so) and vote out the offending horrible man or woman who is doing the right thing in the long run. China does not worry about that..... As a result they can wait out any US response because they absolutely 100% know Americans Have No Stomach For This Kind Of Thing.
Look, you see my point, I see your pointI see your point, but I think what he attempted to do was doomed to fail.
Trump thought he could bully Xi like he bullied Canada, Mexico, and the EU- that was indeed 'naive' and 'misinformed'- Xi didn't give an inch, and showed he was more than willing to play the long game. There were many among that 'army of strategists' that predicted exactly what has so far happened, that this would come to the point where it wasn't politically expedient for Trump, and he'd back off- Trump didn't listen to them. Look at the BS reason he gave for delaying the tariffs- it's a 'Christmas gift' for US consumers...
As far as 'a more opportune time' goes, he should have waited until his second term (if he ends up getting one- he probably will, but this is something the Dem candidate is absolutely going to use against him, and likely with some effect)- he wouldn't have had to take the step back (based on worrying about losing support from his agricultural base) and had his position weakened, but he thought he was going to win the trade war easily and this would be a good thing to campaign upon- nope.
There never seemed to be a real 'end game'- it was all about trying to force China to the table in a weakened position where they'd agree to anything he wanted (he actually thought he could force the Chinese parliament to legislate laws that would be specifically favorable to the US)- so, why is he backing off? Inflicting damage has to have some purpose beyond a feeling of satisfaction or revenge when you're taking damage in return, otherwise it becomes the embodiment of 'cutting off your nose to spite your face.'
As always, I have a 'let's see what happens' attitude, but I think (since he started this tariff war, which I thought was a bad idea from the beginning, but if we're already in it) he should have held steadfast in his resolve to win it. Maybe he'll pick it back up again if he wins in 2020 (or perhaps he'll go ahead with the new tariffs in December as he said he would after delaying them from September 1st), but his actions this week will only have emboldened Xi to continue on the same course of tit-for-tat trading of blows rather than capitulating, imho- just waiting it out seems to be a viable strategy for him, especially with the current uncertainty in the markets, which makes a protracted trade war a much less palatable option for Trump.
Thought about you the other day. Picked up a piece of 1x4 trim at Home Depot for a project I'm doing. Big sticker on it says "MADE IN SWEDEN".
...yea, those parts suk, but they make great food and I like the women...
Yup... like china ''won'',,,,,,,,,, 
dudn't tt ???? 
Welcome to the Obama years, circa 2009-2017.
So if that is what happens, will you be more upset with the people saying "I told you so" or the person responsible for the fiscal policies that accelerated and exacerbated the coming recession?
