Brain Chemistry

Vicious_Cycle

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How much does testosterone vary (numerically) during the day, typically, for a guy in his late 50's?
I've read that the hour-by-hour variance is much greater in younger men, and that in older guys it's not a flat line, but the curve is much flatter.

My doctor's office called this morning to inform me that my numbers are too high, and I don't qualify for any treatments. :neutral:
My first blood draw was around 2:00 p.m on 6/4/21. My last one was around 8:30 a.m. on 6/15. The second one is 120 higher (up almost 50%) than the first.

I still don't have blood test results for celiac disease, but I cut out 99% of gluten since 6/4 and have lost 4 or 5 lbs. So I'm curious if the gluten-free diet and weight loss were the primary contributors to the testosterone increase, or if it's mostly just normal fluctuations that occur throughout the day(?).

Note that there's an established relationship between (gluten-induced malnutrition in men with celiac disease) and low T...
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Vicious_Cycle

they/them - LABusas Road Captain
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How much does testosterone vary (numerically) during the day, typically, for a guy in his late 50's?
Is this consistent with what you know (those of you who are knowledgeable about these things)?
Results: In men 30-40 yr old, testosterone levels were 20-25% lower at 1600 h than at 0800 h. The difference declined with age, with a 10% difference at 70 yr. 17 men with at least one of three measurements less than 300 ng/dl (10.4 nmol/liter) after 1200 h had normal testosterone levels at all three visits before 1200 h (five of eight men 30-47 yr old, four of nine men 66-80 yr old). Much lower levels of diurnal variation were found for dihydrotestosterone, SHBG, LH, FSH, and estradiol at all ages.

Conclusions: Our results support the recommendation of restricting testosterone measurements to morning hours in both young and older men. Limited diurnal variation in other hormones indicates that sampling through the day is appropriate.
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rumble phish

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How much does testosterone vary (numerically) during the day, typically, for a guy in his late 50's?
I've read that the hour-by-hour variance is much greater in younger men, and that in older guys it's not a flat line, but the curve is much flatter.

My doctor's office called this morning to inform me that my numbers are too high, and I don't qualify for any treatments. :neutral:
My first blood draw was around 2:00 p.m on 6/4/21. My last one was around 8:30 a.m. on 6/15. The second one is 120 higher (up almost 50%) than the first.

I still don't have blood test results for celiac disease, but I cut out 99% of gluten since 6/4 and have lost 4 or 5 lbs. So I'm curious if the gluten-free diet and weight loss were the primary contributors to the testosterone increase, or if it's mostly just normal fluctuations that occur throughout the day(?).

Note that there's an established relationship between (gluten-induced malnutrition in men with celiac disease) and low T...
.
In men of our age range, T levels will be significantly lower in the afternoon. The Doc's will tell you to test in the AM (between 8 - 11 AM), with earlier being "better", i.e. your levels will be higher. They will always tell you to fast as well (up to 24hrs) anytime you're going to have any type of bloodwork done.

My last test, for which I was granted the 'script from the Doc, was drawn around 4 PM and I did not "fast" (although, I didn't have anything to eat for the 6-7 hours preceding my draw). This test was at least 117 points LOWER than my previous T level test result of 346. Kaiser doesn't give you the actual #'s when it's below the threshold of 240, but instead they say your overall levels are low and they give you a "free testosterone" number (mine was 61.1, which was on the low end of the "normal" range).

Looking at a 120 point swing from 8:30 AM to 2 PM, I'd say that is consistent with the #'s I was seeing, so I'd say you and I are in the same boat. Do another T level test in a few months, but have it drawn as late in the afternoon as possible. Who knows? By then, with your change in diet and exercise, your levels will most likely rise on their own. But still, a late draw will give you the best chances of getting your Doc to write you a 'script.

On the "gluten" front, I've read that a low carb/no carb diet can also contribute to low T in men. I'll try to find the article in which I read that.
 

Vicious_Cycle

they/them - LABusas Road Captain
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In men of our age range, T levels will be significantly lower in the afternoon. The Doc's will tell you to test in the AM (between 8 - 11 AM), with earlier being "better", i.e. your levels will be higher. They will always tell you to fast as well (up to 24hrs) anytime you're going to have any type of bloodwork done.
Higher test levels in the a.m. applies to men of all ages.
The test I quoted above says that men aged 30-40 will see -25% from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m, while 70 year-olds will see - 10% during that same period. Based on this, I'd expect to see a ~15% difference for my age (58).
My test results varied by over 48% between 8:30 am and 2:00 pm, eleven days apart. Assuming that I didn't get lucky and hit the absolute max at 8:30 am, nor the absolute minimum at 2:00 pm, then I'd say the variance over 11 days was more than 50%, which is NOT typical for anyone, let alone old fuckers like us.

I was not told to fast for any of the testosterone tests.

Also, I'm not cutting carbs for the sake of cutting carbs. I am cutting gluten because I believe I have celiac disease, and am awaiting blood work results to confirm this.

I am wondering if a celiac patient going off gluten could result in a +40-50% change in testosterone in eleven days...

Edit: test for celiac disease came back negative. Didn't see that coming...
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rumble phish

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Almost two weeks in on the T and here are my thoughts...

Doing 100mg/.5ml per week (the Doc prescribed that does every two weeks, but I'm not gonna throw half of the bottle out!). I'm feeling soooo much better. Mind is clearer, mood is better (much less agitation), dreams are better (much more sexual), and I've woken up twice this week with true morning wood (which the wife gladly took care of for me 😜 👍 ). I haven't pitched a tent pole in almost two years, unless I had to pee. Felt really good to feel "normal" again. Gonna start lifting this next week and we'll see what happens.
 
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If you lift don’t go bat shit crazy. Lots of guys on TRT have pushed and torn shit. We ain’t spring chicken no longer and need to be careful or we will have an entirely different set of problems
 

rumble phish

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If you lift don’t go bat shit crazy. Lots of guys on TRT have pushed and torn shit. We ain’t spring chicken no longer and need to be careful or we will have an entirely different set of problems
I absolutely agree. It was a real bitch having to face the reality of how much strength I lost when I had my gastric surgery. It's probably the one main reason why I haven't lifted much since (the irony, right?). But now I feel like I have more energy and a better mental outlook on things. Another hard lesson to learn is that I now should lift for health, and not strength and power. I still wanna get some of my power back, but my right knee is on the verge of letting go as there is almost zero cartilage left in it so I'll have to reimagine my lower body workouts. As for my upper body, well, I don't think there is any reason why I shouldn't be pushing at least 500lbs on the bench again. Eventually.
 
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I absolutely agree. It was a real bitch having to face the reality of how much strength I lost when I had my gastric surgery. It's probably the one main reason why I haven't lifted much since (the irony, right?). But now I feel like I have more energy and a better mental outlook on things. Another hard lesson to learn is that I now should lift for health, and not strength and power. I still wanna get some of my power back, but my right knee is on the verge of letting go as there is almost zero cartilage left in it so I'll have to reimagine my lower body workouts. As for my upper body, well, I don't think there is any reason why I shouldn't be pushing at least 500lbs on the bench again. Eventually.
I am doing most of my workouts with sets with 12-15 reps. I have been told multiple times if I can push a certain weight 6-8 reps to stay the hell away from it.

I am getting older and finally can play like I want to, I surely don't want an injury to slow my roll
 
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