Brain Chemistry

Vicious_Cycle

they/them - LABusas Road Captain
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
28,904
Location
In a shack in a 1-horse town
I guess it's good news / bad news for me this morning. Good news is that my doctor wrote the Rx for a supplement.
The bad news (apparently... according to you guys) is that she ordered the patch, despite my specifically stating a preference for the vials. I spoke with her assistant this morning and expressed my disappointment with that choice. She said she understands, but the doctor prefers the patch because of the ease of use and uniform dosing.

So what's the downside to the patch? That it doesn't raise levels much? I think she's concerned that I would overdo it if she ordered vials for me. That, and she wants to raise my T level to just above the minimum of the "normal" range, rather than raising it to somewhere around the midpoint of that range.

Maybe I could put all the patches on at once... 🤷‍♂️
.
 
Last edited:

rumble phish

BAMF+
Joined
Mar 31, 2002
Messages
14,648
Location
Modesto, CA
I've read this thread with earnest. As you guys know, I have felt (and started a thread here) that my T level was low. I had it tested about a year and a half ago and my "number" came back at 349, which was about 100 points above the bottom of the range that Kaiser uses (240 ng/dL). I stated that I felt it was to low to be acceptable, since the range was 240 - 900 for men of ages 18 - 99. Unfortunately, Kaiser doesn't budge on their protocols and since I was above the low end of the range I was considered "normal".

A year later and I again told my Doctor I felt that I had virtually no sex drive left. It wasn't that the equipment didn't function, I just didn't have the desire. This has been an issue in my marriage because, as anyone would feel, when your partner doesn't "want to" you feel it has to do with you (or maybe your partner wants someone else). This is how my wife was feeling, and it was breaking my heart. I love her with every fiber of my being, but my sex drive was/is just gone. I have no desire to even watch any porn (not that I watch much anyway). Long story short, my Doc sent me in for another round of blood work. I received my results last night, and this time my T level test came back with a note stating "See Free T results". Well, my "Free T" was at 61.1 pg/ml, which my Doc confirmed was low. His note simply states "Your testosterone level is low. Please let me know if you want me to start you on testosterone patches or injections". I've replied back requesting injections, and I'm waiting on his reply.

As far as my other blood work results I'm the picture of health, believe it or not.
 

Vicious_Cycle

they/them - LABusas Road Captain
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
28,904
Location
In a shack in a 1-horse town
OP
Stites

Stites

Schiavo is my bitch
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
12,261
Location
At Racetracks
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #57
I've read this thread with earnest. As you guys know, I have felt (and started a thread here) that my T level was low. I had it tested about a year and a half ago and my "number" came back at 349, which was about 100 points above the bottom of the range that Kaiser uses (240 ng/dL). I stated that I felt it was to low to be acceptable, since the range was 240 - 900 for men of ages 18 - 99. Unfortunately, Kaiser doesn't budge on their protocols and since I was above the low end of the range I was considered "normal".

A year later and I again told my Doctor I felt that I had virtually no sex drive left. It wasn't that the equipment didn't function, I just didn't have the desire. This has been an issue in my marriage because, as anyone would feel, when your partner doesn't "want to" you feel it has to do with you (or maybe your partner wants someone else). This is how my wife was feeling, and it was breaking my heart. I love her with every fiber of my being, but my sex drive was/is just gone. I have no desire to even watch any porn (not that I watch much anyway). Long story short, my Doc sent me in for another round of blood work. I received my results last night, and this time my T level test came back with a note stating "See Free T results". Well, my "Free T" was at 61.1 pg/ml, which my Doc confirmed was low. His note simply states "Your testosterone level is low. Please let me know if you want me to start you on testosterone patches or injections". I've replied back requesting injections, and I'm waiting on his reply.

As far as my other blood work results I'm the picture of health, believe it or not.
Watch out once you are about a month in on the injections, you will want sex day and night like a horny 18 year old
 
OP
Stites

Stites

Schiavo is my bitch
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
12,261
Location
At Racetracks
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #59
1 month of injections... what's that translate to in patches? Never? :lol:
.
No idea my friend......once you get the patches and have them for a month tell them they irritate your skin or you sweat a lot so they fall off. At this point you can tell them you prefer injections. T is well regulated, they will not give you enough at one time that you can do anything with it. I get 2 cc's at a time and have to call in my prescription every two weeks
 

gobrian77

Quod Erat Demonstrandum
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
24,751
Location
Thailand
I guess it's good news / bad news for me this morning. Good news is that my doctor wrote the Rx for a supplement.
The bad news (apparently... according to you guys) is that she ordered the patch, despite my specifically stating a preference for the vials. I spoke with her assistant this morning and expressed my disappointment with that choice. She said she understands, but the doctor prefers the patch because of the ease of use and uniform dosing.

So what's the downside to the patch? That it doesn't raise levels much? I think she's concerned that I would overdo it if she ordered vials for me. That, and she wants to raise my T level to just above the minimum of the "normal" range, rather than raising it to somewhere around the midpoint of that range.

Maybe I could put all the patches on at once... 🤷‍♂️
.
There are likely a dozen or more TRT-specific clinics in Ohio- Google them- they will 100% help you out. These places are run by male doctors who are all on T themselves and know what they're doing- more importantly, they know what you're looking for as far as general health goes as they have the same basic experience as you. No offense to your doctor, but she physically understands what it feels like to be low on (and need) T as much as you understand what it's like to go through menopause.
 

Vicious_Cycle

they/them - LABusas Road Captain
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
28,904
Location
In a shack in a 1-horse town
There are likely a dozen or more TRT-specific clinics in Ohio- Google them- they will 100% help you out. These places are run by male doctors who are all on T and know what they're doing- more importantly, they know what you're looking for as far as general health goes as they have the same general experience as you. No offense to your doctor, but she physically understands what it feels like to be low on (and need) T as much as you understand what it's like to go through menopause.
Yeah, she discouraged me from supplementing in 2012 when I believed it was needed, so I'm surprised she's even willing to try this at all.
I'll do the patch for a month and see what happens... probably follow your advice after that. She'll never get me there.
.
 

WARREN

BAMF+
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
12,461
Location
Calgary
I asked for injectable..Mine gave me gel.

Then I had a newborn son so I couldnt hold him unless I had a shirt on.

So they gave me pills..... and they sucked as well. The absorption of pills and patches is low versus injectable..
A little research showed the dosage was 1/4 of a normal dose.....I was livid.

So I went to the black market and started using that.

Havent come off and never will.

It saved my marriage and it saved me from imploding....my moods levelled, I performed better at work, in the gym and in bed.

Doctors are fucking idiots.....they are happy to see you live a barely acceptable life....find one that wants you to live an optimal life.
 

rumble phish

BAMF+
Joined
Mar 31, 2002
Messages
14,648
Location
Modesto, CA
Have a phone appointment with my Doc tomorrow morning. In his email to me he gave me the option of patch or injectable. I asked for injectable.

EDIT** - So I got a follow up email form my Doc. Looks like I'll be getting the vials and the needles to stick myself every two weeks. He said he's ordered bloodwork panels for my T levels and prostate to be checked every 3 months for the next 5 years, so I'm assuming this is a 5 year prescription?
 
Last edited:
OP
Stites

Stites

Schiavo is my bitch
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
12,261
Location
At Racetracks
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #68
Have a phone appointment with my Doc tomorrow morning. In his email to me he gave me the option of patch or injectable. I asked for injectable.

EDIT** - So I got a follow up email form my Doc. Looks like I'll be getting the vials and the needles to stick myself every two weeks. He said he's ordered bloodwork panels for my T levels and prostate to be checked every 3 months for the next 5 years, so I'm assuming this is a 5 year prescription?
I just had my PSA checked yesterday via blood work and have an appointment with the endocrinologist in the next few days to go over the results. Don’t miss those tests!
 

Vicious_Cycle

they/them - LABusas Road Captain
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
28,904
Location
In a shack in a 1-horse town
I asked for injectable..Mine gave me gel.

Then I had a newborn son so I couldnt hold him unless I had a shirt on.

So they gave me pills..... and they sucked as well. The absorption of pills and patches is low versus injectable..
A little research showed the dosage was 1/4 of a normal dose.....I was livid.

So I went to the black market and started using that.

Havent come off and never will.

It saved my marriage and it saved me from imploding....my moods levelled, I performed better at work, in the gym and in bed.

Doctors are fucking idiots.....they are happy to see you live a barely acceptable life....find one that wants you to live an optimal life.
I see myself on a similar path.

Fucking exasperating process of trying to get an Rx filled, and it's not even the Rx that I specifically requested.
Wife drove to local pharmacy last night, only to be told insurance company rejected it. Called the insurance company last night and they said we need a prior authorization. I told them that was done. They have no record of it. So we initiated (another) one last night.

Called doctor's office just now and they said they did prior auth yesterday "but it's a process that takes time". Meanwhile, I'll just drive to the fucking pharmacy every fucking day until they sell me some Androderm 2 mg patches... :fu::screama::fu:

I read some reviews on that particular patch and they were mixed. Some people did see a benefit, so I remain hopeful...
.
 

Terry_Schiavo

ScrapBracket.org moderator and admins
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
37,446
Location
North Flarida
Id manscape where the patch goes... but generally speaking patches suck without supplemental support like tape
 

Vicious_Cycle

they/them - LABusas Road Captain
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
28,904
Location
In a shack in a 1-horse town
Oh, I think ANYTHING will be better than nothing. But it won't be as good as it could be.
My take, as well.
Meanwhile, as of Friday afternoon, I stopped consuming gluten in anticipation of a Celiac diagnosis (which still has not come). I've lost about 1 pound per day since then. Maybe I can get a few things going in the right direction here, soon. :up:
.
 

Vicious_Cycle

they/them - LABusas Road Captain
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
28,904
Location
In a shack in a 1-horse town
I think there is a decent infrastructure these days for gluten free diets.
The wife tells me there's a whole gluten-free aisle at the grocery store. I've read online that all that stuff tastes like cardboard.

I don't want to be the sissy that can't eat this and can't eat that, but I am fuuuucked up after 10+ years of this shit. I can't go on like this. I'll eat cardboard every day.
.
 

WARREN

BAMF+
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
12,461
Location
Calgary
The wife tells me there's a whole gluten-free aisle at the grocery store. I've read online that all that stuff tastes like cardboard.

I don't want to be the sissy that can't eat this and can't eat that, but I am fuuuucked up after 10+ years of this shit. I can't go on like this. I'll eat cardboard every day.
.
10000%
Steak and shrimp are gluten free....
 

rumble phish

BAMF+
Joined
Mar 31, 2002
Messages
14,648
Location
Modesto, CA
Got my scripts today. Six 200mg/ml vials, six syringes, six 18gx1" needles, and six 22gx1.5" needles. The script says only .5 ml per dose, and to throw away the other .5ml of T. WTF?! Seems like a fucking waste! Supposed to keep this stuff at room temp. I think I'll seal up the vials once I draw the .5ml out of'em and save them for later. I fear doing the whole vial per dose will bump my levels up too fast and then the Doc will end the 'script.

Also, the Pharmacist didn't give me much info on how to stick myself, or where. Just said to make an appointment with the injection clinic and they would walk me through the process. I'm sure I can Google that shit.
 

gobrian77

Quod Erat Demonstrandum
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
24,751
Location
Thailand
Got my scripts today. Six 200mg/ml vials, six syringes, six 18gx1" needles, and six 22gx1.5" needles. The script says only .5 ml per dose, and to throw away the other .5ml of T. WTF?! Seems like a fucking waste! Supposed to keep this stuff at room temp. I think I'll seal up the vials once I draw the .5ml out of'em and save them for later. I fear doing the whole vial per dose will bump my levels up too fast and then the Doc will end the 'script.

Also, the Pharmacist didn't give me much info on how to stick myself, or where. Just said to make an appointment with the injection clinic and they would walk me through the process. I'm sure I can Google that shit.
Don't reseal the vials- fill up two syringes (or however many you use from that amount), and store them capped for when you need one next. I've been using glass 1ml ampoules (which can't be resealed) for 18 months, and I fill up and store four syringes per vial, which lasts me two weeks (fill with and dump your 18g, and then put the 22g on without removing the needle cap). Just keep everything clean and sterilized while you're filling them (I have a small tray that I use for the set-up, and I wipe it down with alcohol before starting- zero issues, and it's pretty common for people who are stuck using small, non-resealable containers to go this route).

Resealing the vials and filling up from them later is more likely to lead to contamination- a sealed syringe remains sterile.
 

Vicious_Cycle

they/them - LABusas Road Captain
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
28,904
Location
In a shack in a 1-horse town
Well, the "prior authorization" required by my insurance company just got denied.

So I called the doctor's office and learned that my doctor has the day off. Her assistant said that the prior auth form asked a couple questions about whether or not we've tried some (unknown to me) alternative treatments, and since the doctor answered "no" to those questions, they anticipated this denial.

These insurance companies are a fucking pain in the ass. How the fuck can they stand in the way of me purchasing something at full price? They're going to force me into back alley deals. Fuck them. :fu::fu:
.
 

Anal Disco

"Disco, Anal Disco"
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
13,691
Location
Alleged Easy Street
How the fuck can they stand in the way of me purchasing something at full price?
The insurance company is not - you're free to pay out of pocket for whatever your doctor writes for (hence the GoodRX app with the discount).

Your doctor sounds annoying. Go find a sports doc, I've even seen a higher end gym that had an office right there in the lobby for one.
 

Vicious_Cycle

they/them - LABusas Road Captain
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
28,904
Location
In a shack in a 1-horse town
How the fuck can they stand in the way of me purchasing something at full price?
The insurance company is not - you're free to pay out of pocket for whatever your doctor writes for (hence the GoodRX app with the discount).
Believe it or not, they are. But that's another story for another day.

Meanwhile, I got a call back from my doctor's assistant, who received clarification from the insurance company on the denial of authorization. Turns out, the insurance company covers this treatment but they require blood draws confirming low T on consecutive days.

So I need two more blood draws. What do I need to do to make sure they don't get artificially high readings, other than not walking into the lab with morning wood?
.
 

rumble phish

BAMF+
Joined
Mar 31, 2002
Messages
14,648
Location
Modesto, CA
Believe it or not, they are. But that's another story for another day.

Meanwhile, I got a call back from my doctor's assistant, who received clarification from the insurance company on the denial of authorization. Turns out, the insurance company covers this treatment but they require blood draws confirming low T on consecutive days.

So I need two more blood draws. What do I need to do to make sure they don't get artificially high readings, other than not walking into the lab with morning wood?
.
Don't fast, and draw after 3 PM.

And jerk off before you go in.
 

rumble phish

BAMF+
Joined
Mar 31, 2002
Messages
14,648
Location
Modesto, CA
Just ordered a 100 pack of 1ml syringes, 100 18gx1" and 100 22gx1.5" needles. I'm not going to waste half of the T that I've been prescribed! I'm going to follow Brian's advice and fill two syringes each time and save one for the next dose. :up:
 

BigGar

high on placebo
Joined
Dec 12, 2001
Messages
43,005
Location
Hayabusaland, CA
You'll get good at drawing it into the syringes. What type of vials did you get that you can't just put them away until next time you need a shot? I get a 20ml vial with the rubber thing in the top. I just keep it in the medicine cabinet and give it a little alcohol wipe before sticking a new needle into draw out the dose.
 

rumble phish

BAMF+
Joined
Mar 31, 2002
Messages
14,648
Location
Modesto, CA
You'll get good at drawing it into the syringes. What type of vials did you get that you can't just put them away until next time you need a shot? I get a 20ml vial with the rubber thing in the top. I just keep it in the medicine cabinet and give it a little alcohol wipe before sticking a new needle into draw out the dose.
I just got a 100 pack of single use 1ml plastic syringes. Figure I'll draw it with the 18g needle and then cap it and store it in the medicine cabinet until I need it. Swap a clean 22g needle fresh outta the package in and inject. I thought Brian had alluded to the fact that once the rubber cap is pierced I shouldn't store it in the vial.
 
Last edited:

gobrian77

Quod Erat Demonstrandum
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
24,751
Location
Thailand
I just got a 100 pack of single use 1ml plastic syringes. Figure I'll draw it with the 18g needle and then cap it and store it in the medicine cabinet until I need it. Swap a clean 22g needle fresh outta the package in and inject. I thought Brian had alluded to the fact that once the rubber cap is pierced I shouldn't store it in the vial.
Some vials with rubber caps are specially made to be 'multi-use' (meaning the rubber cap can be pierced multiple times with no sterility issues). Many guys here get 10ml vials, which, due to the amount, are meant to be used over time and are built to take multiple sticks with a needle. Since you were specifically told to dump the vial after drawing, it sounds like you got 'single-use' vials (which are like the ampoules I use), which are meant to be disposed of once the seal is broken, but you can fill up from it with more than one needle provided you do it in a short time-frame and don't let it sit around.

Drawing it into a syringe and storing it will obviate the need to waste the unused T, and will keep it sterile. It's also convenient to have it ready and not have to screw around on the 'day of'.

Also, fill with your 18g, then remove it and replace it with your 22g (don't remove the cap until you're ready to inject yourself), then store it.
 

rumble phish

BAMF+
Joined
Mar 31, 2002
Messages
14,648
Location
Modesto, CA
Okay, giving myself the first shot tonight. Those of you on TRT, where do you inject? Thigh? Deltoid? Glute? High glute?

And is taking the shot in the AM or PM better? Or does it even matter?
 

gobrian77

Quod Erat Demonstrandum
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
24,751
Location
Thailand
I inject subcutaneously in the abdomen with a 25g 5/8" needle, always in the morning (not that that time of day is of any particular advantage as far as I know).
 

WARREN

BAMF+
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
12,461
Location
Calgary
Okay, giving myself the first shot tonight. Those of you on TRT, where do you inject? Thigh? Deltoid? Glute? High glute?

And is taking the shot in the AM or PM better? Or does it even matter?
I pin high glute.
I have a friend that bangs delt every 3 days.... Ive never tried, but if its ANYTHING like quad, hard pass
 

gobrian77

Quod Erat Demonstrandum
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
24,751
Location
Thailand
You raally pin subq?
Do you get a lump ?
Over 200 shots so far, not one lump. Look into it (Google 'Testosterone IM vs SubQ')- there's loads of info, and the lower vascularity of fat vs muscle means a more consistent movement of T into the bloodstream (ultimate levels will be the same over time with both methods, but average levels will be more steady with subQ). It's much easier to inject yourself as well.
 

WARREN

BAMF+
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
12,461
Location
Calgary
Wow, thanks for the heads up. I was gonna do thigh, but I'll do high glute instead.
I was "scared" to try pinning myself in the glute, so I hit quad probably 5 or 6 times total....by the last time I was pretty sure I was going to the hospital.
Im sure some do it with no troubles, but Ive heard more say its an issue.
Think, baseball bat to the quad with a capable bat operator.

Glute is pretty easy, just have some patience or have the wife do it while you lay down.
The key is to relax as much as possible.
 

gobrian77

Quod Erat Demonstrandum
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
24,751
Location
Thailand
This is a quick, easy-to-get-through synopsis of a study of IM vs SubQ T conducted by the University of California- I know it says 'for intramuscular injection' on the bottle, but there's been research done over the last decade that shows other effective ways to inject T, though the IM route is fine if that's the way you wanna go- SubQ is just so easy to do in comparison:


Two hundred thirty-two men took part in the UC study. Baseline levels were recorded for all men in each of the four measurement areas, and then again at 6-12 weeks post-treatment. The results showed that men who underwent SubQ injections of testosterone resulted in a 14% greater increase in total testosterone levels than the testosterone level of IM patients.
 

rumble phish

BAMF+
Joined
Mar 31, 2002
Messages
14,648
Location
Modesto, CA
Alrighty then! First dose is done :up:

Did the high glute, as Warren suggested, and I also used an ice pak as he suggested as well. Easy-peasy. Although, I don't think I even needed the ice pak, but it did make a nice red patch that served well as a target. Needle went in so smoothly that I literally didn't feel anything. 1 1/2" needle, inserted about 3/4" of the way in. Pulled the plunger back slightly and got a small air bubble and pushed the plunger down slowly until it bottomed out. Not a single drop of blood. :up:
 
Top Bottom