Bleeding the brakes

   #1  

rumble phish

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Replaced a leaky axle seal and had to replace the emergency brake shoes as well, as they were soaked with gear oil. Pulling the caliper off I had to push the pad back a bit and apparently got a little air in the line when I loosened the bleeder screw. Everything turned out fine, but now I had to bleed the brakes.

I have one of those $30 vacuum bleeders from Harbor Freight, so I figured I bleed the whole system. That thing sure does make it a simple one-man job. Unfortunately, on the last caliper (driver's front), the damn bleeder screw snapped off flush. Luckily, the bleed job worked on just the three calipers and the brakes are better now than they ever were.

On the bright side, this gives me an excuse to upgrade the brakes. Probably gonna go with Powerstop's tow and truck system. New calipers, cross drilled and slotted rotors, carbon/ceramic pads.

Power Stop KC1944-36 Front & Rear Z36 Truck and Tow Brake Kit with Calipers
 
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   #2  

Terry_Schiavo

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Can you put forceps on the broken caliper hose so you dont lose all your hard work??
 
   #3  

Master-Cylinder

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They sell brake bleeder repair kits for broken off one that you can't drill out properly or correctly. Come with a new seat and bleeder screw.
 
   #4  

Vegas12

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interesting....in the 100 years I've been doing brakes, I've never released the bleeder to collapse a piston.

Yes, I've read all about it possibly back flushing the ABS, but I have never had a problem.

I used to be able to do a pad slap on my Tundra in about 10 minutes thanks to the Brembo style caliper.
 
   #6  
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interesting....in the 100 years I've been doing brakes, I've never released the bleeder to collapse a piston.

Yes, I've read all about it possibly back flushing the ABS, but I have never had a problem.

I used to be able to do a pad slap on my Tundra in about 10 minutes thanks to the Brembo style caliper.

I have, but always been on motorcycles. When shit was clogged up or Honda linked brakes with stuck proportioning valve.

Correct though, it's not normal behavior.
 
   #7  

Master-Cylinder

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I'm trying to do something with the front brakes on a 2013 Mulitstrada 1200S with ABS. When it sits in the sun all day, the front brake locks up and you can't move it unless you let it sit until morning or loosen a bleeder screw.
Brake fluid was dark brown. Can't even pump new fluid thru the system, lever rock hard! So I took the M/C off and apart, it was full of chunk style brake fluid. It has clogged most everything up, including the ABS unit. I got the brakes working again, but it's fucked. Maybe if I run a gallon of fluid thru it...
The rear doesn't have any pressure at all! You have to take the rear caliper off and hold it in the air to get it to bleed properly.
Did I mention it got hauled in because the chain wiped out the alternator cover? When it got here, it had a brand new chain on it, adjusted banjo string tight, and a big oily hole in the engine cover. THERE IS A FUCKING STICKER ON THE SWING ARM WITH THE PROPER DRIVE CHAIN SLACK PRINTED RIGHT THE FUCK ON IT! Asshole who owns it is probably an "engineer".
 
   #9  

Ed

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Are you suuuuure that you want to go with drilled-and-slotted rotors for that truck application?

Yeah, they look sexy/racy but while the weight reduction is a positive I don't personally think they develop the same cohesion as a undrilled/unslotted... and again just my 2¢, but I ran 'performance ceramic' pads (Hawk brand) on the GTO for a short while (on drilled-and-slotted rotors) and they were absolutely white-knuckle scary when cold and wet. I threw those in the trash at <1,000 miles and went with a conventional Raybestos pad.

.
 
   #10  

DaCat

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I have the same problem on my Priller, withing 200-300km I no longer have a rear brake. I gave up trying to figure out what the fucking issue is. Aprilia didn't give a fuck from the beginning, said that only a few bikes had issues. The dealer never figured it out either.

My clutch is also Brembo and also has air bypassing into the system, how I still don't know either. Aprilia did a recall that never worked, sent parts that never solved the problem. Actually bought a spare slave cylinder to see if I can solve the problem. They use an O-Ring in the slave, would not have been my first choice. A proper lip seal might be a better option.

Brembo is great when they work, when they don't then they are a pain in the ass.
 
   #12  

BigGar

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I never used to release the bleeder screw when changing pads. I'd use my little pusher tool and just make the fluid go backwards. Never had a problem doing that but I do usually just pump the excess fluid through the bleeder now and top up with fresh at the master. Not sure why, just thought getting rid of some of that old fluid is probably not a bad thing.
 
   #13  

Master-Cylinder

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When I get a rear master cylinder that sticks the piston up in the bore when changing the fluid, I'll push the pad apart to force the piston back down. It happens a good bit.
 
   #14  

CZLoco

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I can't believe that snapped off on you. What awful luck!

I've got new calipers, new rotors (with studs), pads and bearings for both front wheels, laying around the house.
Just short two more seals and once I get them, I'll be ready to tackle my front brakes and inner/outer bearings on the 200k mile Bronco.

I got regular rotors. No slotted or drilled bullshit.

Have you considered upgrading to Hydroboost brake setup?
I'll be doing that next year. Better brake pedal feel.
Stronger brake pedal "power".
Not dependent upon vacuum.
Which will be nice if I ever get to stick a stroker in this with a lumpy cam :D
 
   #17  
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rumble phish

rumble phish

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interesting....in the 100 years I've been doing brakes, I've never released the bleeder to collapse a piston.

Yes, I've read all about it possibly back flushing the ABS, but I have never had a problem.

I used to be able to do a pad slap on my Tundra in about 10 minutes thanks to the Brembo style caliper.
Yeah, everything I've read about ABS brakes is that you should never push the fluid back into the master cylinder. Also that the system should be bleed I'm a specific sequence. After everything I put into this truck I didn't want to fuck the ABS system by simply not following direction on the brakes.
 
   #19  

GSXRTURBO1

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I'm putting all new brake lines on the Silverado today, stainless of course. :mad2::mad2:

I feel your pain.
i did this a couple of years ago.

Just replaced all rotors, calipers, pads and rubber lines this past month.

bleeding was easy, one man operation. Open bleeder screw just a little, pump up brakes to get most of the air out, go to furthest caliper first open bleeder screw more, and mityvac until no air bubbles.
 
   #20  

Wretch

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is overrated
Brake fluid is hygroscopic.
It literally sucks the moisture from the air.
Most all brake systems need flushing every few years because of this alone.
Never mind the breakdown of materials that also mix into the fluid.

Small bottles of sealed fluid are a better idea than the economy 1/2 gallon jug...
...unless you are going to use it all at once.

My favorite is having rubber lines collapse and lock a caliper down solid.
Too long without proper service.
 
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   #21  

GSXRTURBO1

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Almost forgot, also replaced the seals and bearings in the rear, floating axle 03 2500HD

that took some work, but not too bad.
 
   #22  

Master-Cylinder

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Yeah, everything I've read about ABS brakes is that you should never push the fluid back into the master cylinder. Also that the system should be bleed I'm a specific sequence. After everything I put into this truck I didn't want to fuck the ABS system by simply not following direction on the brakes.
You should see the brake bleeding procedure on a Goldwing with integrated ABS brakes! There is around seven bleeders, two on each caliper and one on the fork. You have to bleed them in the right order.

And some of the older BMW's with the power assist brakes, Jesus H Christ! For that you need a special fitting that screws into the ABS unit that holds a quart of fluid because it sucks it down so fast! They have "control" systems and wheel systems and the two are not really connected. The brake fluids in the master cylinders do not run through the ABS unit. So, you hit the brake pedal or lever it moves a piston in the ABS unit. The piston in the ABS unit then applies pressure to the calipers. Fuckers have a forrest of bleeder screws on them. And are failure prone. You better have your GS911 tool to activate all the junk when bleeding it.
 
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   #23  
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rumble phish

rumble phish

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Are you suuuuure that you want to go with drilled-and-slotted rotors for that truck application?

Yeah, they look sexy/racy but while the weight reduction is a positive I don't personally think they develop the same cohesion as a undrilled/unslotted... and again just my 2¢, but I ran 'performance ceramic' pads (Hawk brand) on the GTO for a short while (on drilled-and-slotted rotors) and they were absolutely white-knuckle scary when cold and wet. I threw those in the trash at <1,000 miles and went with a conventional Raybestos pad.

.
Interesting. I've used ceramic pads and thought they were so-so, but the carbon/ceramic I've used from Powerstop were, IMHO, phenomenal. I put a set of drilled and slotted rotors along with the aforementioned pads on my wife's Mazda 3 and was thoroughly impressed with the improved response and feel at the pedal. There was virtually zero fade when tossing the car down a couple of my favorite twisty roads, in both the dry and wet.

The only difference that I can recall was that there was a significant and specific bedding/break-in procedure with them.
 
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   #25  

BigGar

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Almost forgot, also replaced the seals and bearings in the rear, floating axle 03 2500HD

that took some work, but not too bad.
I'm surprised I haven't had to replace my rear axle seals yet on my '04 2500HD. I lost a right rear tire once, bad, and the cords wrapped around the backing plate and such. Used wire cutters to remove all of that garbage and put the spare on. I failed to notice those cords had bent and kinked the hard line on my caliper. The brakes didn't feel strange, and fluid would push through to allow the pads to press on the rotor, but going the other direction was not happening so that right rear was dragging bigtime and building up just a crazy amount of heat. I think it had to be close to bursting into flames. I didn't notice until I pulled into my driveway and smelled something HOT as fuck. Walked by that right rear and could feel the heat emanating from a few feet away. I don't know how hot it got, but I was worried that it might catch fire so I started just running the garden hose on it to cool it off. The rear wheel itself had to be 350 - 400 degrees. The water actually sizzled at the tire bead. Spare tire was incredibly hot, and the rear axle sizzled water almost to the differential. The caliper and rotor must have gotten red hot. I picked up a new line, rotor, caliper and pads, put all that shit on and bled it out. Never thought to change out the right rear seal, but that was three or four years ago, and it's still not leaking a bit.
 
   #27  

BigGar

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It's the spare, so I just put it back up under the truck :)

I thought for a minute that maybe that was why the previous tire blew in the first place, but my sons and I changed it pit crew style as we were on the way to take the oldest to the airport and didn't have time to spare. I then remembered that the dead tire remnants and wheel were not hot at all. Still no idea what killed the tire, but it was those cords and belts that bent the hard line. Drove the rest of the way to San Diego, then 40 minutes home. Amazing she didn't burn.
 
   #28  

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I just replaced the rear pads in the Concours (2008). The abs is bypassed since the Poconos trip. Shove the hex driver in between the pads, drive the pistons all the way back, remove pin, replace pads, antisieze all threads, reassemble, pump pedal twice, done!
Pretty sure the old pads were original.
 
   #31  

BigGar

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My front bleeder screws thought they were gonna break off, but I convinced them otherwise.

Penetrating oil, heat, tap with a small hammer, patience.
I used to work for an old mechanic in the early '80s, in Michigan. He was a fucking master at getting rusty bleeder screws loose. He had a few really long open / box end wrenches. 8mm, 3/8ths, etc... common bleeder screw sizes. The wrenches were about eight inches long. He'd put a little penetrating oil on and let it set a bit, but the most interesting trick was that he'd actually turn the bleeder clockwise first, tightening it. For some reason that I'm not sure I understand to this day, he'd get that long wrench over the rusty old fucker and just start to ever so slightly try to get it to move clockwise. Once it did, he'd go back in the other direction no problem. Never saw him snap one off.
 
   #32  

Terry_Schiavo

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I used to work for an old mechanic in the early '80s, in Michigan. He was a fucking master at getting rusty bleeder screws loose. He had a few really long open / box end wrenches. 8mm, 3/8ths, etc... common bleeder screw sizes. The wrenches were about eight inches long. He'd put a little penetrating oil on and let it set a bit, but the most interesting trick was that he'd actually turn the bleeder clockwise first, tightening it. For some reason that I'm not sure I understand to this day, he'd get that long wrench over the rusty old fucker and just start to ever so slightly try to get it to move clockwise. Once it did, he'd go back in the other direction no problem. Never saw him snap one off.
Thats legendary BUT... let me tell you about my "friend" in Melbourne, FL 32902
 
   #33  

Master-Cylinder

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Let me tell you aboot a guy who tightened the bleeder screw on Rich's Brembo front caliper (Rich Oliver to "you people") and cracked the caliper! I backed away very fast and quietly to let them discuss the issue.
 
   #36  
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rumble phish

rumble phish

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:eek:



Are you talking about pushing the caliper back to make room for the pads or something else?
Yeah, pretty much. This was pushing the pad/caliper back to get it off the rotor. On older vehicles (non-ABS) I never gave it a second thought. But on most ABS you're not supposed to let the fluid push back into the system. Not sure why, but I just followed the directions so that I wouldn't fuck it up.
 
   #38  
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Yeah, pretty much. This was pushing the pad/caliper back to get it off the rotor. On older vehicles (non-ABS) I never gave it a second thought. But on most ABS you're not supposed to let the fluid push back into the system. Not sure why, but I just followed the directions so that I wouldn't fuck it up.
Apparently to prevent any debris in the brake fluid to flow back and screw an ABS valve up. Clamp the rubber brake line, crack open the bleeder screw, and as you retract the piston, fluid will come out of the bleeder screw, and not back up into the master cylinder.

Good thing you brought that up, I've got to do pads and rotors on the 4runner soon and I would have done it wrong.
 
   #41  
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rumble phish

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Now I'm looking for stainless lines for the brakes to go with my upgrade of rotors and calipers/pads.
 
   #43  

Terry_Schiavo

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you should also get a wallet that has a secure closure strip like velcro... the MunyPit150 is sucking bajulicks out of your folding monays like a coke addled hooker
 
   #45  
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rumble phish

rumble phish

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you should also get a wallet that has a secure closure strip like velcro... the MunyPit150 is sucking bajulicks out of your folding monays like a coke addled hooker
Velcro? I'mma need a wallet with a heavy duty bicycle lock on it! :lol:

I'm resisting the urge to lift it, put 35's on it, re-gear it and add e-lockers front and rear, but my will power is beginning to wane...
 
   #46  

CZLoco

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Good thing you brought that up, I've got to do pads and rotors on the 4runner soon and I would have done it wrong.
Ditto, I should probably research ABS before I replace brakes for the first time on a setup that has ABS.
 
   #47  

CZLoco

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Now I'm looking for stainless lines for the brakes to go with my upgrade of rotors and calipers/pads.
Go all the way with custom fittings and make your own stainless line so you don't have to worry about fit length from pre-made kits. :D
And it'll give you an excuse to buy some cool new tools so you can make the lines. :D
 
   #48  

Master-Cylinder

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Go all the way with custom fittings and make your own stainless line so you don't have to worry about fit length from pre-made kits. :D
And it'll give you an excuse to buy some cool new tools so you can make the lines. :D

I made a shitload of braided steel brake hoses, only need a couple tools and experience to do them right. Doing one wrong is not an option. And, they are not DOT approved.
 
   #50  

CZLoco

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They make tools for that.
Is it still art if a tool does it for you?
 
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