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Thread: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

  1. #1
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    Default dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    The local Harley dealer here finally got their super flow dyno going. They said the numbers are lower on Super flows because they are more realistic. So when a turbo busa rolled off with 180 RWHP I kinda thought...realistic to who?

    Any one heard of such a drastic difference? The busa was a Hahn system so I wouldn't expect 500, but at least 220 to 240...one would think. It is supposedly running very well...

    same tech told me he had a dynaglide show 140 mph on the drum.


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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by maui View Post
    The local Harley dealer here finally got their super flow dyno going. They said the numbers are lower on Super flows because they are more realistic. So when a turbo busa rolled off with 180 RWHP I kinda thought...realistic to who?

    Any one heard of such a drastic difference? The busa was a Hahn system so I wouldn't expect 500, but at least 220 to 240...one would think. It is supposedly running very well...

    same tech told me he had a dynaglide show 140 mph on the drum.
    I've not known of any shops locally with Superflo equipment, just the typical Dynojet 150 / 200 / 250. There's enough variance in those results to keep you guessing, I don't want to guess at what a Superflo or Factory dyno would report!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by maui View Post
    The local Harley dealer here finally got their super flow dyno going. They said the numbers are lower on Super flows because they are more realistic. So when a turbo busa rolled off with 180 RWHP I kinda thought...realistic to who?

    Any one heard of such a drastic difference? The busa was a Hahn system so I wouldn't expect 500, but at least 220 to 240...one would think. It is supposedly running very well...

    same tech told me he had a dynaglide show 140 mph on the drum.
    The DynoJet is an inertia dyno. It uses an algorithm based on the acceleration of a counterweight attached to or part of the drum v.s. the time it took to get to there to calculate horsepower. The SuperFlow is an eddy current dynamometer like the Mustang or Factory Pro EC997 units. Eddy current dynos use what basically amounts to a big electromagnetic brake to apply load to the roller/rollers. The advantage being that the eddy current type can provide a fixed or variable load to the rollers at a given rpm to perform tuning adjustments or other tests.


    Here...read this. It will explain most of the important stuff to you, Jeff.

    http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0102_dyno/

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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Give me an email address where I can email you an article about Dyno Jet from the man who started the company.
    The company was started by Mark Dobeck and his father, I knew Mark 22+ years ago.

    The article is from the March 2006 Sports Car International magazine.
    The title of the article is, Makin' Hot-Rodding Honest.

    Warning; the article is not for those who think the Dyno Jet dyno numbers are gospel!


    I would take a Factory or Superflow any day over a Dyno-Junk.
    We have both a Dyno-Junk and a Factory.
    We use the Dyno-Junk for a storage rack.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by Master-Cylinder View Post
    Give me an email address where I can email you an article about Dyno Jet from the man who started the company.
    The company was started by Mark Dobeck and his father, I knew Mark 22+ years ago.

    The article is from the March 2006 Sports Car International magazine.
    The title of the article is, Makin' Hot-Rodding Honest.

    Warning; the article is not for those who think the Dyno Jet dyno numbers are gospel!


    I would take a Factory or Superflow any day over a Dyno-Junk.
    We have both a Dyno-Junk and a Factory.
    We use the Dyno-Junk for a storage rack.
    DJ is good for number racing and tuning for peak power...not much else. If you want a really good tool for tuning driveability and especially throttle response under load and transition between circuits in carbureted engines, an eddy current or water brake dyno is the only way to go.

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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    I thought the latest DJ250's had load holding capability built in and when their Tuning Link package was used, it tuned the bike similar to what would happen on an EC997. Similar or not?

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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    hey Maui,

    I need to get you here to see my new engine dyno, once the buiding is complete.. its a 900hp load controling (torque-cell, water brake) dyno not like the DJet inertia junk.

    shawn.



    some info i got for you on DJ ..Dyno crap...


    Dynojets final number-fudge was arbitrarily based on a number from the most powerful road-going motorcycle of the time, the '85 1,200 cc Yamaha V Max.

    The VMax had 145 advertised factory hosepower, which was far above the raw 90 hp number spit out by the formula. " (*not a quote->they are talking about the formula that they came up with to figure out the hp based on the time it took to accelerate the rolls of the dyno they built)

    "Meanwhile, existing aftermarket torque-cell engine dynamometers delivered numbers that clustered around 120. Always a pragmatist, Dobeck finally ordered his Chief Engineer to doctor the math so tha the Dynojet 100 measured 120 hp for a stock VMax. And that was that:

    For once and forever, the power of everything else in the world would be relative to the '85 Yamaha VMax and a fudged imaginary number."

    Maui, Read below... interesting to say the least...


    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0001.pdf
    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0002.pdf
    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0003.pdf
    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0004.pdf
    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0005.pdf
    ...With a Bridgeport, Engine Lathe, and a Tig welder. Ill make it.


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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by NitroShark View Post
    hey Maui,

    I need to get you here to see my new engine dyno, once the buiding is complete.. its a 900hp load controling (torque-cell, water brake) dyno not like the DJet inertia junk.

    shawn.

    I'd like to see that Shawn

    some info i got for you on DJ ..Dyno crap...


    Dynojets final number-fudge was arbitrarily based on a number from the most powerful road-going motorcycle of the time, the '85 1,200 cc Yamaha V Max.

    The VMax had 145 advertised factory hosepower, which was far above the raw 90 hp number spit out by the formula. " (*not a quote->they are talking about the formula that they came up with to figure out the hp based on the time it took to accelerate the rolls of the dyno they built)

    "Meanwhile, existing aftermarket torque-cell engine dynamometers delivered numbers that clustered around 120. Always a pragmatist, Dobeck finally ordered his Chief Engineer to doctor the math so tha the Dynojet 100 measured 120 hp for a stock VMax. And that was that:

    For once and forever, the power of everything else in the world would be relative to the '85 Yamaha VMax and a fudged imaginary number."

    Maui, Read below... interesting to say the least...


    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0001.pdf
    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0002.pdf
    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0003.pdf
    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0004.pdf
    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0005.pdf


    that was a great story


    if you can't laugh at your self, make fun of other people, if you make them cry, take pictures.

    the next labusas track day:
    http://www.labusas.org/forum/showthr...s-get-together

  9. #9

    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    It seems to me that an inetria machine is more similar to what happens on the road. Unless someone is running a bike up a steep hill at a constant speed the eddy curreny Facory style of dynos is not that realsitic.

    In the real world what happens is that a bike speeds up through the rpm range and then does that over and over as it laps the track or streets.

    don
    http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w320/edonsmith/ecta2.gif

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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by NitroShark View Post
    hey Maui,

    I need to get you here to see my new engine dyno, once the buiding is complete.. its a 900hp load controling (torque-cell, water brake) dyno not like the DJet inertia junk.

    shawn.



    some info i got for you on DJ ..Dyno crap...


    Dynojets final number-fudge was arbitrarily based on a number from the most powerful road-going motorcycle of the time, the '85 1,200 cc Yamaha V Max.

    The VMax had 145 advertised factory hosepower, which was far above the raw 90 hp number spit out by the formula. " (*not a quote->they are talking about the formula that they came up with to figure out the hp based on the time it took to accelerate the rolls of the dyno they built)

    "Meanwhile, existing aftermarket torque-cell engine dynamometers delivered numbers that clustered around 120. Always a pragmatist, Dobeck finally ordered his Chief Engineer to doctor the math so tha the Dynojet 100 measured 120 hp for a stock VMax. And that was that:

    For once and forever, the power of everything else in the world would be relative to the '85 Yamaha VMax and a fudged imaginary number."

    Maui, Read below... interesting to say the least...


    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0001.pdf
    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0002.pdf
    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0003.pdf
    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0004.pdf
    http://www.factorypro.com/magazine/S...e/scan0005.pdf

    Finally, someone else who know about Dyno-Junk! So many morons take their b.s. numbers as the absolute truth! 99% of the people that have their bike run on a dyno are just looking for a bragging number.:loser:

    Do they, or can they dyno a top fuel car or funny car? I wouldn't think that you could not. Too violent and too short a fuse I would think.

  11. #11

    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Dyno hp, who gives a rats ass..... it's a damn tool and that is it. It does not matter (except to dick wavers who feel they need to spout hp numbers in others faces) what dyno "producres" the best, or more accurate (in who's oppinion or marketing crap) numbers.

    Just use the damn thing for beforer and after runs for mods that you make to your bike.
    - pro libertate

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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffw View Post
    Just use the damn thing for beforer and after runs for mods that you make to your bike.
    Which begs the question......would the delta in horsepower/torque before and after mods be reported differently on a DJ vs Factory vs Superflo?

    Is it possible due to calculation methodology that a DJ might report 11 more hp and 5 pounds of torque while the Factory or Superflo might only report 8 more hp and 4 pounds of torque?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    I hear Mustang dyno reads real low, like 15-20%
    True?
    My Anger Management Class Really Pisses Me Off

  14. #14

    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Listen assholes, stop crying about which one "gives the best numbers", why so when you're at sunday moring coffee you can gloat "my bike just made XXXhp"?

    Fuck it i'm making a dyno up that will have 50's putting out over 200bshp at the wheel, corrected of course.

    The only thing that matters is that you need a dyno to tune your bike right....and it's only relevant to compare numbers on bikes dynoed on the same day, on the same dyno, by the same guy.

    Who gives a shit about some harley dealers dyno, you actually expect them to be able to run it right....look at what they are working on all day.

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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Hughes View Post
    Listen assholes, stop crying about which one "gives the best numbers", why so when you're at sunday moring coffee you can gloat "my bike just made XXXhp"?

    Fuck it i'm making a dyno up that will have 50's putting out over 200bshp at the wheel, corrected of course.

    The only thing that matters is that you need a dyno to tune your bike right....and it's only relevant to compare numbers on bikes dynoed on the same day, on the same dyno, by the same guy.

    Who gives a shit about some harley dealers dyno, you actually expect them to be able to run it right....look at what they are working on all day.
    currently it's the only Dyno here. I really don't care what the peak numbers are so long as I can get a tune up from a base line. If they tell me my bike is making 1.38 kruplewavers/crusty dinars, and I change something and it goes to 1.42 kruplewavers/crusty dinars I'm fine with that.

    When the tech, who I respect as a very good mechanic, told me a harley spun the drum at 140 I was a little surprised, but it's not an outrageous number considering. Just out of curiousity I asked him if he thought that bike could do 140 and he said of course not.


    if you can't laugh at your self, make fun of other people, if you make them cry, take pictures.

    the next labusas track day:
    http://www.labusas.org/forum/showthr...s-get-together

  16. Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Maui,

    99 Busa with Hahn kit...about 8-9 psi boost....

    Made 240+rwhp on superflow....but didn't like the software for tuning...

    So I brought it to the DJ250 I normally use and it made 260+rwhp...

    NO CHANGES were made to the bike....tests were done a couple days apart....

    That should answer your question....

    Dave

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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    You cant do a good job of tuning with a inertial dyno. Reason is you can not hold a RPM and tune the fuel curve (and timing MBT) at different Loads, like a brake dyno.. Soo , Why doesn’t everybody have one? Maybe the 60-120K price for a quality one is a clue. Even the cheapo’s are 30K.. inertial dynos are real cheap by comparison and consequently don’t perform near the job.

    Fact:
    Horsepower CAN NOT be measured. Horsepower is a Calculated number. However, Torque Can be measured and general units are Foot Pounds. From measuring torque with a proper dyno you can now convert that number to Horsepower.

    Keep in mind a brake (load) dyno can be verified and calibrated for torque output, not a inertial style dyno like the Dyno Jet toys.
    ...With a Bridgeport, Engine Lathe, and a Tig welder. Ill make it.


  18. Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by WarpSpeed View Post
    I've not known of any shops locally with Superflo equipment, just the typical Dynojet 150 / 200 / 250. There's enough variance in those results to keep you guessing, I don't want to guess at what a Superflo or Factory dyno would report!
    Natively, in a steady state test (duplicating max load and any specified rpm and throttle position) the Factory Pro EC997 dynos and the Superflow will read essentially, the same.
    In a Sweep test, the EC997 dyne systems will read essentially the same as a steady state test and, on the Superflow dyno, it kinda depends on what you tell the software about the amount of spinning mass on the bike - and each bike is different (think Fatboy HD vs. yz250f dirtbike - the wheels and engine spinning mass is hugely different!).
    If you don't enter the correct spinning mass of the bike, your numbers will be wrong in a Sweep Test.

    The guy who owns the Superlflow CAN push the secret button to inflate the hp numbers up to "something like" a dynojet "90 > 120 hp V-Max" scale. It's pretty hokie - and that's why Sportrider and Motorcyclist's HP numbers are even higher than a dynojet hp - as they "have" a Superflow to use and they push the "magic button" to make the HP higher than real, true HP.

    As far as a dyno just "being a tool" and "it doesn't make any difference" which dyno you use?

    To the contrary, I kinda manufacture dynes and design test routines and have done tons of "test" type research over the last 30 years - and have found that, without a doubt, an engine's power output is absolutely affected by both the TYPE and AMOUNT of load.

    With insufficient load (a 4th gear, inertia only load, wack the throttle open qualifies as insufficient), you'll find that power at high rpm tends to drop off - even though, under a full load (steady state test) and in the real world it's not dropping off.

    So, using the 4th gear/wack method, a tuner would have to work harder to try to get more power at very high rpm - and usually, if you are doing cam timing and velocity stack work, you'll retard the intake cam (I'm assuming using a stock cam) and run "too short" velocity stacks and he'll thow away lowend and midrange - where as, if power was measured under "load" (like the EC997's (and now Superflow) been able to do for the last 20 years), you'd see the real power that's actually there at high rpm in the real world and retain or even work to boost the midrange.

    I see that a lot with stacks on high hp bikes - in the real word or steady state, they work bitchin' - but in a dynojet 4th gear wack, it looks like they lost topend (but they only lost it on a dj dyno).

    A 4th gear wack doesn't duplicate anything in the real world except for that "falling down a mineshaft, drafting a semi truck test" that we all want to do so we can compete in the 1st Annual Innagural Mineshaft Drop Race.

    Ok - that was supposed to be funny....

    Next?

    Marc
    Last edited by Cram Grebsivlas; 02-22-2007 at 12:33 PM. Reason: can't..... spel......
    Your typical everyday sometimes evil (but usually kindly) curmudgeon who's been some places, seen some things and made some things in the last 50 years.

  19. Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffw View Post
    Dyno hp, who gives a rats ass..... it's a damn tool and that is it. It does not matter (except to dick wavers who feel they need to spout hp numbers in others faces) what dyno "producres" the best, or more accurate (in who's oppinion or marketing crap) numbers.

    Just use the damn thing for before and after runs for mods that you make to your bike.
    I was waiting for you to chime in on this one Jeff, very well put Sir.

    A tool - simply put

    Funniest Dyno bit on television, OCC takes delivery of a brand new DynoJet and promptly pukes the new specialty built motor on run 1. dooh...

    This place is screwed now, with the likes of Cram (clem kadidlehopper's third cousin) - dreaded motorcycle topic threads with substance.

    Cram where's the pictures, you know the drill aroud here. Welcome

    Pic's!
    Last edited by Kawabuser; 02-22-2007 at 11:14 AM.

  20. Default Re: dyna jet vs EC997 vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by NitroShark View Post
    You cant do a good job of tuning with a inertial dyno. Reason is you can not hold a RPM and tune the fuel curve (and timing MBT) at different Loads, like a brake dyno.. Soo , Why doesn’t everybody have one? Maybe the 60-120K price for a quality one is a clue. Even the cheapo’s are 30K.. inertial dynos are real cheap by comparison and consequently don’t perform near the job.

    Fact:
    Horsepower CAN NOT be measured. Horsepower is a Calculated number. However, Torque Can be measured and general units are Foot Pounds. From measuring torque with a proper dyno you can now convert that number to Horsepower.

    Keep in mind a brake (load) dyno can be verified and calibrated for torque output, not a inertial style dyno like the Dyno Jet toys.
    Like your Fact comment. Very true.

    To add a bit to the dyno "cost" info -
    I actually can measure hp to .1 or .2 hp changes in steady state.
    You'll see it in our test files under the EGA Phase and the Tag Phases.
    It's usual to see better than .5% repeatabilty in our tests.
    The power variabilty, test to test, is due to the bike's engine and airbox and fuel change in temp. and not the dyno's measurement issues. -
    Repeatability is the result of operator procedures, and not the dyno's data acquisition.

    You can take a glove and drop it on our drive roller and you'll see it change the Flux Factor (engine power output smoothness) display - and that's more in the area of a few 1000th ish of a hp.

    All that's, I think, a bit better than a $40,000+ Superflow or other dyno - even if it's 5 times the price of the about $27,000 - $32,000 that the EC997 dynoes cost (WITH a continous duty 4 gas ega!)

    For us to charge $150,000 for a dyne system, I need a few more PHD's on the letterhead.......

    Best regards -

    Marc
    Factory Pro
    Last edited by Cram Grebsivlas; 02-22-2007 at 11:24 AM. Reason: can't spell
    Your typical everyday sometimes evil (but usually kindly) curmudgeon who's been some places, seen some things and made some things in the last 50 years.

  21. Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by Kawabuser View Post
    I was waiting for you to chime in on this one Jeff, very well put Sir.

    A tool - simply put

    Funniest Dyno bit on television, OCC takes delivery of a brand new DynoJet and promptly pukes the new specialty built motor on run 1. dooh...
    The first dyno that they (Orange County Choppers) got was a Mustang with complicated Mustang software. That was last year. They blew a bike up on the first run because someone fouled up the oiling system.....

    I see that it must have been the "dyno's fault", as it sounds like that have a Dynojet, now?.....

    Now that they are 2 for 2.....
    2 bikes, 2 runs, 2 different dynos, 2 engines.....
    Well..... I guess that they will just have to conclude that "dynos are bad".

    When Mustang decided to work with them, I just rolled my eyes and hid. The only way that I'd work with them is if I supplied a dyno operator, too.

    I have a dealer a couple blocks away from them - and..... the way they are on tv IS the way they are........

    Cheers!

    Marc
    Factory Pro EC997 Dyne Systems
    Last edited by Cram Grebsivlas; 02-22-2007 at 07:14 PM. Reason: ...can't... spelll.... words hrt... too.... much.....
    Your typical everyday sometimes evil (but usually kindly) curmudgeon who's been some places, seen some things and made some things in the last 50 years.

  22. Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by Kawabuser View Post
    This place is screwed now, with the likes of Cram (clem kadidlehopper's third cousin) - dreaded motorcycle topic threads with substance.

    Cram where's the pictures, you know the drill aroud here. Welcome

    Pic's!
    You are close - I'm Clem's other mother's cousin's sister's cousin's brother's cousin's sister's brother.......

    Pics? What pics? Of my what?
    My 9"
    Record album? (that's only funny if you know the song.....)

    CG
    Your typical everyday sometimes evil (but usually kindly) curmudgeon who's been some places, seen some things and made some things in the last 50 years.

  23. #23

    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by Cram Grebsivlas View Post
    You are close - I'm Clem's other mother's cousin's sister's cousin's brother's cousin's sister's brother.......

    Pics? What pics? Of my what?
    My 9"
    Record album? (that's only funny if you know the song.....)

    CG
    Oh I don't think he will post any pics at all....... unless it's of his gray hair (just like mine).
    - pro libertate

  24. Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Aerosmith ain't hillbilly - how about TEKA vs PC II/III in hillbilly down to earth spelln

  25. Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Hey Cram, great posts, very informative. I have been getting my bikes tuned using a TEKA box and a Factory Pro dyno for a few years now, and am really happy with the results. Its not about what the graph tells me, but its more what i can feel. Do you find the Factory Pro dyno to be a better tool then lets say a DJ 250?? Just curious.

    Thanks

  26. #26

    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong View Post
    Hey Cram, great posts, very informative. I have been getting my bikes tuned using a TEKA box and a Factory Pro dyno for a few years now, and am really happy with the results. Its not about what the graph tells me, but its more what i can feel. Do you find the Factory Pro dyno to be a better tool then lets say a DJ 250?? Just curious.
    You do know who you are asking right????????? You bet he better answer "yes" to your question, I would be very dissapointed if he did not.
    - pro libertate

  27. #27
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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffw View Post
    You do know who you are asking right????????? You bet he better answer "yes" to your question, I would be very dissapointed if he did not.
    ​I drink a lot of coffee, but only for your protection, not mine.
    ===============================================================
    ]"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Colonel Jeff Cooper

  28. #28
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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    i like my engine dyno's software ...i can video tape each run.



    ...With a Bridgeport, Engine Lathe, and a Tig welder. Ill make it.


  29. #29

    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    dyno is a tool
    somebody always says that, right?
    just depends if your sand box includes actual riding and racing of a motorcycle.
    don't hate the dyno, hate the tuner?
    Or, don't hate the dyno, hate the fucking internet posturing game?
    I'd build my own dyno if I didn't already have a sick ass tuner covering my 6.

  30. Default Re: dynojet vs EC997 vs. superflow dynos

    Quote Originally Posted by NitroShark View Post
    i like my engine dyno's software ...i can video tape each run.
    What? Where's the 5 gas EGA, pitot tube velocity measurement, flux factor waterfall graph, air turbine for inlet air volume and divining rod arrow???
    I spent 5 minutes searching - I looked at all the dials and bar graphs and charts, dials and all the buttons, got hungry, ate dinner, came back, still couldn't find it.
    But I did see that "Run Silent, Run Deep is on the History Channel at 2am.

    Just kidding -

    Looks like just about everything is right there. I suppose that if you didn't hook up the EGTs and fuel turbine, that you wouldn't have to show all that on the screen.

    I kept the EC997 software interface a bit simpler during a chassis dyne test so that the user is directed to what I think is important during the test. We played around with the movie recording but since our test's steps are 3 to 5 seconds long and shorter than the 23 seconds that that run took, it isn't too useful.
    You can't run a high hp bike on a chassis dyne for a 23 second sweep unless you just gave up on controlling the coolant / combustion chamber temps throughout the test.
    We teach to hold the coolant temp to a standard value before each ramped step.

    <chuckle>
    You are a bit less encumbered by that as you probably have a 1000 gallon tank of cooling water sitting outside and the coolant temp never gets too high - so a 23 second loaded sweep on an engine dyne is fine for you - but not for a motorcycle with a stock radiator on a chassis dyne - the coolant would go up at least 15f-20f, messing up tuning.

    This is a single point step at 14k - hopefully I did the link correctly -
    http://www.factorypro.com/videos/dyn...20at%2014k.MOV

    Anyhow - Your screen is bigger than mine.... :-(

    Have a good eve -

    CG
    Last edited by Cram Grebsivlas; 02-23-2007 at 10:01 AM. Reason: word still rong
    Your typical everyday sometimes evil (but usually kindly) curmudgeon who's been some places, seen some things and made some things in the last 50 years.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    thanks,, but i have a Engine dyno. peeps around here know what i do and what i post. which is the real deal..

    welcome.
    Last edited by NitroShark; 02-22-2007 at 08:22 PM.
    ...With a Bridgeport, Engine Lathe, and a Tig welder. Ill make it.


  32. #32
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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Hey Cram Grebsivlas, How's it going?
    Remember me #19 with a Honda RS250 or two and a Factory Pro Dyne in Florida?
    Yeah, I thought you would!

    I knew as soon as I read "dyne" it was you! Even before I read you name in the mirror.

    I still have my bottle of Arrogant Bastard Ale you gave me.

    Shalom.

  33. #33

    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    I've been taking my y2000 ZX12 1427 to Dynojet shops for 5 years. A total crapshoot on hp/tq. REAL difficult to tell the difference that mods make.

    Even worse, I lost 2 motors on the Dynojet dynos due to????
    It got so that every sweep I crossed my fingers, prayed to every god I could think of.

    Last Nov. I started going to Houston's Metric MC's Factory Pro. What a difference.
    The numbers are very consistent, predictable.
    Maybe because the operator/owner (Andy) is religious about getting motor temps "right" before doing a session?
    Maybe because the Factory Pro is just a better piece of equipment/system/method???

    Best of all, although I can't prove it, the steady load seems MUCH, MUCH easier on the motor.
    We are tuning my NA motor for the Texas Mile and during Jan/Feb have done 5 dyno days (3 with different cams, 2 with different injectors). No motor problems.
    Holding the motor at 11,500 for 4-5 sec? It seems to love it. I no longer cringe.

    Hp difference between DJ250 and Factory Pro? In the range of 15-20% Hard to tell exactly because DJ numbers varied 5-10%.

    thumbs up to Marc & Factory Pro!

    thumbs up to Andy of Metric!

    Only negative is the seeming lack of a direct rpm link between the bike and the FP software.
    Last edited by entropy; 02-22-2007 at 11:35 PM.
    use moderation in moderation

  34. #34

    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by Master-Cylinder View Post
    Hey Cram Grebsivlas,

    I knew as soon as I read "dyne" it was you! Even before I read you name in the mirror.
    Yes, he does not like to use his "real name"...... I don't know why, since he does make good products.
    - pro libertate

  35. Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Jeff, he isn't related to Kojak ?

    neither was clem kadidlehopper (reated to kojak)

    Where's the damn naked Teka pic's




    "LABUSAS" YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT
    anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you!

  36. Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by Master-Cylinder View Post
    Hey Cram Grebsivlas, How's it going?
    Remember me #19 with a Honda RS250 or two and a Factory Pro Dyne in Florida?
    Yeah, I thought you would!

    I knew as soon as I read "dyne" it was you! Even before I read your name in the mirror.

    I still have my bottle of Arrogant Bastard Ale you gave me.

    Shalom.
    I DO remember you! (actually, I figured you out, too).
    When ya'll coming out to the left coast? I'm saving an earthquake fer ya!

    I love Arrogant Bastard Ale.
    I sent one to a guy last year because he earned it on the phone. He called up and couldn't figure out what to say. "Thanks?" "You're an ????"
    Pretty funny if you have a weird sense of humor. Eventually, he apologized and said that he'd keep his bottle, too -
    The same company makes "Racer 8" ale. I gave Perry M. a bottle when he was #8 in 250 GP.

    Got to run - a bunch of guys are throwing bikes at us to tune before they leave to Daytona tomorrow morning and we have to fix one of them, the motor was just rebuilt somewhere by somebody we both know and it sounds like they missed the cam timing by about a tooth.......

    Rock and roll!

    Marc
    1.I have a lot of hair and most of it's not grey.
    2. To anybody who wants to know who I am, here's a hint: "Marc" is "Cram" backwards...... then google me.
    Your typical everyday sometimes evil (but usually kindly) curmudgeon who's been some places, seen some things and made some things in the last 50 years.

  37. #37

    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Did not say you did not have hair .........

    Here is a vintage pic for you...
    - pro libertate

  38. Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    2. To anybody who wants to know who I am, here's a hint: "Marc" is "Cram" backwards...... then google me.[/quote]

    WRONG - you are mr Hayabusa shift kit 00 - that Marc guy is smart, you're Cram




    "LABUSAS" YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT
    anything you say will be misquoted and then used against you!

  39. Default Re: dynojet vs. EC997 vs. superflow dynos

    Great pic, Jeff!
    Colorado Springs, it looks like.
    That was the year that the race fuels left that brown, waxy deposit in carbs and fuel injectors when they evaporated and the only thing that removed it was "OFF" insect repellant..... :-)
    Have a good day -
    M
    Your typical everyday sometimes evil (but usually kindly) curmudgeon who's been some places, seen some things and made some things in the last 50 years.

  40. #40
    LE05BUSA is offline Limited Edition 2005 Hayabusa (my name ain't Leo and I ain't a cop!!)
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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Mmm, NUTEC

  41. Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Yep - It was Nutec's turn in the barrel - but - that's happened to nearly every fuel that I can think of at one time or another. Pro V skated through, so far, though -
    Marc
    Your typical everyday sometimes evil (but usually kindly) curmudgeon who's been some places, seen some things and made some things in the last 50 years.

  42. #42
    LE05BUSA is offline Limited Edition 2005 Hayabusa (my name ain't Leo and I ain't a cop!!)
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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    I always had better luck with Special 5+ than I did with VP MR, but I always flushed the system with conventional fuel afterwards. The stuff made power!

  43. #43
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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Hey Marc, whoops, I mean Marc, does Paul R still have a dyno and use it?

    VP has a new fuel out called U4.1 that should make more power than U4, does not gum up or eat things, and is cheaper!

    I had a bike the other day that had the counter balancers out of phase and time!
    How in the hell did that happen? The guy just bought it, everything had been dicked with on it.
    What a pile it was.
    It was a 2004 Vulcan 750 with very low miles on it. You have to remove the engine to get the stator cover off!

  44. #44

    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    What about Innovate open loop type tunning systems?

    I can monitor anything I want and record it, tune accordingly. Measures Gs and boost also.

    What's the downside?

  45. Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by Lota Fun R View Post
    What about Innovate open loop type tunning systems?

    I can monitor anything I want and record it, tune accordingly. Measures Gs and boost also.

    What's the downside?
    Are you asking me that?
    Your typical everyday sometimes evil (but usually kindly) curmudgeon who's been some places, seen some things and made some things in the last 50 years.

  46. #46
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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by Lota Fun R View Post
    What about Innovate open loop type tunning systems?

    I can monitor anything I want and record it, tune accordingly. Measures Gs and boost also.

    What's the downside?
    Are you asking about a data logger?
    Only downside to that is the price.

  47. #47
    LE05BUSA is offline Limited Edition 2005 Hayabusa (my name ain't Leo and I ain't a cop!!)
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    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by Lota Fun R View Post
    What about Innovate open loop type tunning systems?

    I can monitor anything I want and record it, tune accordingly. Measures Gs and boost also.

    What's the downside?
    Only downside is the possibility of getting arrested making WOT tuning runs on the 210 FWY.

  48. #48

    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by Cram Grebsivlas View Post
    Are you asking me that?
    Sure. Why not reply.

    The price isn't bad if you figure that you can do near unlimited pass's, the pigs on the 210 might not like it much but they can't keep up anyways.

    Dyno time is expensive, ten times to the dyno shop will cost you about as much as a data logger, difference is you still have the data logger after ten runs. Data logger's cost around 1k$

  49. Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by Master-Cylinder View Post
    Hey Marc, whoops, I mean Marc, does Paul R still have a dyno and use it?
    He still has his big dyne system and can do bikes, cars and trucks, as far as I know.
    James at 2 Boys Racing now has the Riva Yamaha / Razor's Edge EC997 MC/Quad dyne in .

    VP has a new fuel out called U4.1 that should make more power than U4, does not gum up or eat things, and is cheaper!
    I'll be looking around for that. I just did a mildly worked on 140+ hp 999r Ducati with VP U4 last night - I had a headache for 6 hours after that. Yes - U4 causes me to get headaches..... (A dead stock Busa makes 135 - 140 True HP for comps).

    On racebikes, part of our tuning deal is that they bring in 5 gallons of whatever fuel they are using, and I get to keep what's leftover - maybe a couple gallons - So - I seal and date it and keep it for fuel comparisons.

    Most people don't know that, when you get down to it, each engine requires a slightly diffeent fuel and what's best for power on one engine isn't necessarily what's best for power on another engine.

    It helps that we have worked with Rick Gold at ERC Fuels for many years and he's made up special fuels for us that we used in our AMA roadrace program. All but one of those fuels was legal. (lol!)
    fwiw, he's a big fan of EC brake dynos for engine power testing.

    Best regards -

    Marc
    Factory Pro
    San Rafael, CA
    800 869-0497
    Last edited by Cram Grebsivlas; 02-24-2007 at 08:53 AM. Reason: looked at how I had written........
    Your typical everyday sometimes evil (but usually kindly) curmudgeon who's been some places, seen some things and made some things in the last 50 years.

  50. #50

    Default Re: dyna jet vs super flow dyno's

    Quote Originally Posted by Cram Grebsivlas View Post
    He still has his big dyne system and can do bikes, cars and trucks, as far as I know.
    James at 2 Boys Racing now has the EC997 MC/Quad dyne in Royal Palm Beach. He likes to do big, fast monsterbikes.


    I'll be looking around for that. I just did a 140+ hp 999r Ducati with VP U4 last night - I had a headache for 6 hours after that. (Yes - U4 causes headaches..... (A dead stock Busa makes 135 - 140 True HP).

    On racebikes, part of our tuning deal is that they bring in 5 gallons of whatever fuel they are using, and I get to keep what's leftover - maybe a couple gallons - So - I seal and date it and keep it for fuel comparisons.

    Most people don't know that, when you get down to it, each engine requires a slightly diffeent fuel and what's best on one engine isn't necessarily what's best for another engine.

    It helps that we have worked with Rick Gold at ERC Fuels for many years and he's made up special fuels for us, that we used in our AMA roadrace program. All but one of those fuels was legal.
    fwiw, he's a big fan of EC brake dynos for engine power testing.

    Best regards -

    Marc
    Factory Pro
    Do you purge the can? With argon or something? To keep the fuel fresh.

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