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Thread: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

  1. Default Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Well I finally finished both of my groms with upgraded Takegawa 181-4v engine, using standalone Aracer 2+ ECM, Sex Machine clutch system, ceramic bearings thru out, 34mm throttle body with matching inlet tube and port match head and porting, 10 hole F/I, and other HP hardware.

    Did a shake down run this pass weekend riding one grom on Saturday from San Jose to San Francisco for fleet week using all the back roads since I had to break in the piston rings and such and had to keep the rpms under 5,500. Sunday I rode the other grom into the city using the same back roads EL Camino Real.

    Did find some things that needed fixing after the return trip.

    I monitored both the head temp on the intake port and also the cylinder temp and also the crank case temp.

    Hoping to see 28-32hp after the dyno tuning and map adjustment.

    both Takegawa groms


    monitoring the engine, the red meter has two channels to monitor the head and cylinder, the long back box Velcro to the meter is the Aracer LCD control adjustment tool for fuel/timing/auto tune settings/etc, round gauge below is for the A/F gauge, small gauge above the round gauge is for crank case temp


    blue temp sensor wire going to head and cylinder
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Gotta be a lot of fun at ~30 horses.

    .

  3. #3

    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    um no way in hell its going to be that much. I got my scooter to 23 at the tire so far. Depending on how long the Austrian post office takes my new parts that will only add more power & rpm!
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckystrike View Post
    That's a handsome looking cock.

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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry_Schiavo View Post
    um no way in hell its going to be that much. I got my scooter to 23 at the tire so far. Depending on how long the Austrian post office takes my new parts that will only add more power & rpm!
    He probably getting it tested on a Dyno Junk, it will probably show 50 HP!
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry_Schiavo View Post
    it was your campaign sign... GRUMPS 4 TRUMP...lol


    The Bellicose Mechanic

    There's real horsepower, and there's DynoJet horsepower.
    Don't get confused, DynoJet horsepower is not real horsepower.

    Non-Grom.

  5. Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry_Schiavo View Post
    um no way in hell its going to be that much. I got my scooter to 23 at the tire so far. Depending on how long the Austrian post office takes my new parts that will only add more power & rpm!
    We are already doing 27-30hp and a couple guys are seeing 32hp

    30hp with a 170cc 4v engine
    http://www.hondagrom.net/forums/7-gr...tml#post345049
    http://www.hondagrom.net/forums/25-p...tml#post350713

  6. Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    No Finbro, bro???


  7. #7

    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    who is we?
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckystrike View Post
    That's a handsome looking cock.

  8. Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry_Schiavo View Post
    who is we?
    Northern Calif Grom squad that are testing building and selling parts for the Bay Area and some guys on the East Coast Florida area and Kinney the custom motorcycle builder from back east which link I posted above.

    highest a 183-2v seen was about 27hp and evening run seen 28hp "change in density air pressure"

  9. Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas12 View Post
    No Finbro, bro???
    Only the exhaust system is Finbro

  10. #10

    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco San Jose View Post
    We are already doing 27-30hp and a couple guys are seeing 32hp

    30hp with a 170cc 4v engine
    http://www.hondagrom.net/forums/7-gr...tml#post345049
    http://www.hondagrom.net/forums/25-p...tml#post350713
    um ok so how much money is in that?
    And will it hold together? Right now Im limited by 32mm throttlebody and a shitty cam. Also that kit looks to have a 7mm larger intake valve than whats on mine...lol.
    But I am at 270ccs
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckystrike View Post
    That's a handsome looking cock.

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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    I have $1800 total including purchase price into my 2014 Grom. It hits 68mph into the limiter. GPS verified. It is enough. Fuck a $10k+ minibike

  12. Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry_Schiavo View Post
    um ok so how much money is in that?
    And will it hold together? Right now Im limited by 32mm throttlebody and a shitty cam. Also that kit looks to have a 7mm larger intake valve than whats on mine...lol.
    But I am at 270ccs
    Seriously the HP gains are in the head porting, 4V heads are better because they have a better surface area as far as valve area is concern but the weak point is the valve adjustment fingers, they do break and cause all kinds of failure. When I mean head porting it will be the intake port only and also matching your inlet tube and spacer to the intake port of the head.

    Example I use a Koso 34mm throttle body with a 10 hole F/I, my inlet tube and spacer is 30mm round so what I do is match the spacer to the inlet port of the head and I darken any exposed metal with a felt pen that I see thru the plastic, then I take a dermal tool with a red rock cutter and dermal out the exposed darken area and also port out the input port.

    The other problem we have found that the piggy back PCV-WB02 to your stock ECM does cause problems so we switched over to stand alone Aracer mini 2+ ecm, way better unit and no more piggy back.

    The duration of the cam type does make a difference depending if you want top end performance or starting line performance so you would have to test which cam works for you.

    The other big secret we found is that if you take your valves and valve seat and re-lap them to get a better seating it will improve your overall performance and compression.

    Good luck on your build

  13. Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by bikefrk View Post
    I have $1800 total including purchase price into my 2014 Grom. It hits 68mph into the limiter. GPS verified. It is enough. Fuck a $10k+ minibike
    I can hit 80-90mph no problem and see between 80-100mpg depending on how long I want to WOT. I can ride around all day sitting up at 65mph going into a head wind or hill with no problem.

    Yep speed cost money but I rather spend it on motorcycles, drones, guns, beer, hookers and go fast parts for my motorcycles, car, truck.

    Hey but the main thing is we are have fun no matter on a Hayabusa or a grom.

    What mods are on your grom?

  14. Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Master-Cylinder View Post
    He probably getting it tested on a Dyno Junk, it will probably show 50 HP!
    Mustang dyno

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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Cisco, that's some good chit congrats!
    "..some gave all, KIA.."

  16. #16

    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    There has to be better location for that oil cooler...

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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco San Jose View Post
    Mustang dyno
    Good on ya mate, for not going Dyno Junk poser numbers.

    Step test or sweep test? A step test will work that thing!
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry_Schiavo View Post
    it was your campaign sign... GRUMPS 4 TRUMP...lol


    The Bellicose Mechanic

    There's real horsepower, and there's DynoJet horsepower.
    Don't get confused, DynoJet horsepower is not real horsepower.

    Non-Grom.

  18. Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by BigHock View Post
    There has to be better location for that oil cooler...
    yep right where my DIY airbox is with the BMC filter. I did do a mock up at that location but was worried about the hot air going into the intake.

    Right now I have it hanging lower because the Takegawa BBK kit came already with the mounting bracket for that location.

    The original setup had the Takegawa oil catch can return hose going into my intake valve cover but I already melted two pistons and cylinders scratched so I plugged up that cover and hoping to reduce heat to the upper portion of the piston since both melted piston was towards the intake side of the piston.

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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    I'm thinking power could be made with a right proper tuned airbox and inlet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry_Schiavo View Post
    it was your campaign sign... GRUMPS 4 TRUMP...lol


    The Bellicose Mechanic

    There's real horsepower, and there's DynoJet horsepower.
    Don't get confused, DynoJet horsepower is not real horsepower.

    Non-Grom.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Master-Cylinder View Post
    I'm thinking power could be made with a right proper tuned airbox and inlet.
    I would imagine that lil motor can spin 11,000rpms? Mine spins about 9500... soon to be 10500!
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckystrike View Post
    That's a handsome looking cock.

  21. Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry_Schiavo View Post
    I would imagine that lil motor can spin 11,000rpms? Mine spins about 9500... soon to be 10500!
    Another good think about Aracer ECM you can set the RPM limits up to 12K or 14K and you don't have to get a pass code like Dyno Jet make you sign up for. Right now I'm set at 9.5K until break in than I'll push it to 11K until melt down

  22. #22

    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    ...Cisco' never comes across as a braggart...

    ...it is always more like he is sharing stuff with us...
    ...fubar bundy...

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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Great stuff, Cisco! Fuck the haters, you've got cool stuff over there....love it!
    Supplier of LABusas' FASTEST Billets...

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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by BilletMan View Post
    Great stuff, Cisco! Fuck the haters, you've got cool stuff over there....love it!
    I'll be the echo here.

    An appearance more than performance thing-
    The front and rear brake discs being the same diameter give the Groms a mid 1980's look. Perhaps a disc and caliper from a kart could be adapted onto the rear?
    THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS!!
    DO I LOOK LIKE A FUKKEN HISTORIAN OR SOMETHING?

  25. #25

    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Your wiring is particularly elegant.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Why 2 identical Takegawa 181-4v Groms (except for color)?
    Why not keep one as 181 and change the other to 182?
    My Anger Management Class Really Pisses Me Off

  27. Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by MadRussian View Post
    Why 2 identical Takegawa 181-4v Groms (except for color)?
    Why not keep one as 181 and change the other to 182?
    A while back I rode with a group of BBK groms and one of my friend had the first takegawa 181-4v engine and he walked away from all the other BBK kit groms so I was so impressed with that engine that I had to get one.

    Most grom owners are stuck with the Finbro 183-2v engine or the special 204 or 235 Finbro 4 valve engine but those engines are blowing up due to the heat and bad design.

    Yes the Takegawa 181-4v is pricey but I would be a head of the game if I can figure out how to make the engine last and be reliable so with 2 engines I can monitor and do a data base testing and changes that will help the performance of the engine and also the best way to cool the engine or remove Crank Case Pressure and vent CCV. The more I learn the more the grom owners will benefit with my posting.

    I think 181 is about as high you want to go with out blowing up the engine or being reliable for at lease 10K riding miles.

    For now learning the right mapping A/F for cooling the piston at WOT is a learning curve, also learning how to use the oil catch can correctly and returning any oil being collected in the catch can with out increasing the temps to the engine case and such.

    For now I do know ceramic bearings do work on the grom wheels and even better yet ceramic bearings is a must for BBK engine internals such as the transmission bearings, clutch bearing, and crank case bearings and rod bearing.

    HEAT is our enemy with these small air cooled engine.

    Another learning curve that I came across is yes if you polish and cut your transmission gears it will help out with the performance with the grom and this information will also help with the bigger displacement Motorcycles when you decide to start performance upgrades.

    My biggest knowledge gain is how to adjust a F/I engine using the correct map at the correct RPM range and also how to set the correct timing curve as to get the best HP.

    Learning about lapping the valves when working on BBK engine was also a special eye opener and great learning curve.

    Both of the groms where once 170cc 2v and 183cc 2v so I know how they performed so the 181cc 4v is like going from prop engine to a jet engine

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Hapo View Post
    ...Cisco' never comes across as a braggart...

    ...it is always more like he is sharing stuff with us...

    Godspeed little buddy

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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Cisco,
    i'm not trying to bust your balls bro but I just looked through some Grom sites- there's a company selling the Takegawa 181 4v kit and the Dyno charts say it makes 14 hp. I dunno if that has wazzoo cams or fueling but the chart says it's aftermarket fueling.
    lots of problems with lean air fuel mixtures reported; likely why you're burning Pistons
    but it has to be said if these things are making 8 hp stock how on earth are you getting 3+ times as much power? I mean it's doable being 167 hp/liter but I'd think you'd be >12k RPM to do that... yes?

    you must be grenading these fuckers.

    stock is around 65 hp/liter, right?

    if I weren't such a fucking fat ass I'd have one of these...

    edited to try to sound inquisitive not accusatory. I love shit like this.
    Last edited by simon520; 10-12-2017 at 10:41 PM.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    ...four valve head and artful porting...
    ...fubar bundy...

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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco San Jose View Post

    What mods are on your grom?
    Chimera intake and FMF full exhaust.

    I could have used more power when we rode all over NC and TN earlier this year. Some of those mountain roads wore the little bikes out.

    But then the downhill racing started! Just dumb fun with your friends on equal bikes.

  32. Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by simon520 View Post
    Cisco,
    i'm not trying to bust your balls bro but I just looked through some Grom sites- there's a company selling the Takegawa 181 4v kit and the Dyno charts say it makes 14 hp. I dunno if that has wazzoo cams or fueling but the chart says it's aftermarket fueling.
    lots of problems with lean air fuel mixtures reported; likely why you're burning Pistons
    but it has to be said if these things are making 8 hp stock how on earth are you getting 3+ times as much power? I mean it's doable being 167 hp/liter but I'd think you'd be >12k RPM to do that... yes?

    you must be grenading these fuckers.

    stock is around 65 hp/liter, right?

    if I weren't such a fucking fat ass I'd have one of these...

    edited to try to sound inquisitive not accusatory. I love shit like this.
    If you search the grom fourm, they had a big get together in Tennessee this pass summer and they had a dyno shoot out and the highest there was a 183-2v @ 27hp and 28hp in the evening run and this was Kenny's grom. Kenny builds custom made bar hopper bikes and he got into the groms and started doing his magic with the grom engine. Porting and polishing those transmission gears and ceramic bearings is the trick.

    here is a posting from Kenny his grom made 29hp on a grom crank and trick out parts.
    http://www.hondagrom.net/forums/10-g...tml#post370130

    Go thru the whole link posting below and you will see Kenny's builds and his start on grom performance. You should see the busa he has and also the custom made bikes and he is building a
    http://www.hondagrom.net/forums/27-g...money-pit.html

    We have a lot of guys that ride the grom that are in the 250-300 lb range and are having a blast with their grom.

    We are seeing 20hp, 24hp, 27hp, and one or two seeing 30hp and that is my gold to get as close to 30 hp.

    Wait till I have dialed in the grom my next project is 2017-2018 KTM 390 duke mini that I will DIY, I already have the 14 rims to down size the KTM 390 to as close to the grom size. Aracer already has the ECM and with all the other after market parts I want a 45+ hp ktm 390 with almost the size of a grom.

  33. Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by bikefrk View Post
    Chimera intake and FMF full exhaust.

    I could have used more power when we rode all over NC and TN earlier this year. Some of those mountain roads wore the little bikes out.

    But then the downhill racing started! Just dumb fun with your friends on equal bikes.
    you should check out the 125cc super head sold by my friend Franco from Finbro garage North America. There is a lot of added HP just doing simple stuff.

    These are my friends riding out in Manteca, the fast grom is a 170-4v second is Franco's 125 super head grom and in the dust left behind are the 125 groms with chimera and full exhaust and some of the riders are 200+ lb .


    this is the head to get, upgrade with one of hardracing came and upgrade your throttle body and you are good to go.
    http://finbrogarage.com/engine/21-fi...aded-head.html

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Cisco, you have an interesting past time and passion, don't stop Looks like you enjoy it too.

    You seem pretty jacked up on the electronics side, so why aren't you running a proper data logger to get some real time data from the motor, eg. EGT, oil temp, air intake temp, AF ratio, etc.? Should help you make an informed decision.
    I've learned that Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

  35. Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by DaCat View Post
    Cisco, you have an interesting past time and passion, don't stop Looks like you enjoy it too.

    You seem pretty jacked up on the electronics side, so why aren't you running a proper data logger to get some real time data from the motor, eg. EGT, oil temp, air intake temp, AF ratio, etc.? Should help you make an informed decision.
    the onboard Aracer LCD monitor can check every rpm range and I can adjust Fuel or spark in the range I want changes made. I only have the Aracer mini 2+

    The top off the line Aracer is the RC-1 at $595 and this will do everything you mention.

    this is what my Aracer mini2+ does

  36. #36
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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Cool gadget, lots of settings to mess up
    I've learned that Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Ok so total thread derail- got any links to the CR 450 motor xplant for the Grom?

  38. #38

    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    I dont get why youse guys just didnt transplant a 250 2 stroke... easy 40hp, 6 speeds...lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckystrike View Post
    That's a handsome looking cock.

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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry_Schiavo View Post
    I dont get why youse guys just didnt transplant a 250 2 stroke... easy 40hp, 6 speeds...lol
    Puss! Wedge a CR500 mill into that little mini bike!
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry_Schiavo View Post
    it was your campaign sign... GRUMPS 4 TRUMP...lol


    The Bellicose Mechanic

    There's real horsepower, and there's DynoJet horsepower.
    Don't get confused, DynoJet horsepower is not real horsepower.

    Non-Grom.

  40. Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Master-Cylinder View Post
    Puss! Wedge a CR500 mill into that little mini bike!
    Are you talking to me or do you need more HP

  41. #41

    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    ha! I hate the stock rear sets!! So ugly & uncrashworthy!! Same thing about hayabusas when people leave
    their passenger pegs still on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckystrike View Post
    That's a handsome looking cock.

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    Default Re: Finished my two Takegawa 181-4v groms, road test, ready for dyno tuning, pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco San Jose View Post
    Are you talking to me or do you need more HP
    No sir, that comment was directed at Terry Schiavo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry_Schiavo View Post
    it was your campaign sign... GRUMPS 4 TRUMP...lol


    The Bellicose Mechanic

    There's real horsepower, and there's DynoJet horsepower.
    Don't get confused, DynoJet horsepower is not real horsepower.

    Non-Grom.

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